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Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals

by "Greg G." <info@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Nov 25, 2005 at 04:24 PM

We are so far from practicing promiscuous intercourse that we are not 
even allowed a lustful glance. What could justify any doubt as to the 
purity of the life led by those who are not allowed to use their eyes for 
any other purpose than that for which God created them, namely to look in 
the light, for whom even a lustful glance is called adultery! For them 
the coming judgment applies even to thoughts!

We are not accountable to human laws, which a wicked person may evade. 
Right from the beginning I tried to convince you of the divine origin of 
our teaching. We have quite a different law. We have a task which has led 
us to see that the full measure of justice is to be found in rightly 
loving ourselves and our neighbors. With this in mind we look upon some, 
according to age, as sons and daughters; some we treat as brothers and 
sisters; and those who are older we honor as fathers and mothers. It is 
of the utmost importance to us that their bodies remain undefiled and 
uncorrupted: they belong, after all, to those we consider our brothers 
and sisters or some other relation! The Logos speaks to us once more, "If 
anyone kisses a second time, because he enjoyed it...!" adding, "Thus one 
must give the kiss and exchange greetings with great care, for if it 
should be defiled by any wrong thought it would rob us of eternal life."

Therefore, because we are expecting eternal life, our contempt of the 
world extends even to the pleasures experienced only in the world of the 
imagination. Thus each of us has only one wife, whom he has married 
according to our own laws and, what is more, for the purpose of begetting 
children. The farmer, after entrusting the seed to mother earth, waits 
for the harvest without sowing more seed. In the same way our desire 
reaches its goal in the procreation of children. Nevertheless you can 
find many fellow-believers, both men and women, who grow old without ever 
marrying, in the hope of a closer inner communion with God. If, then, to 
persevere in the state of virginity brings both sexes nearer to God, and 
if a mere thought or lustful desire drives us away from him, how much 
more shall we despise the deeds the very thought of which we forbid 
ourselves? Our life does not consist in making up beautiful phrases but 
in performing beautiful deeds and in working toward them. Every man shall 
remain as he is born or marry only once, for a second marriage is only 
camouflaged adultery...He who severs himself from his first wife, even 
after her death, is an adulterer in disguise. He oversteps the ordinance 
of God who in the beginning created only one man and only one woman.

But why should I speak about things which are mysteries? In spite of such 
sublime principles we hear the most serious accusations against us, 
proving the saying, "The harlot reproves the chaste." The very people who 
organize a regular white-slave traffic; who avoiding the law offer young 
people every type of vile debauchery; who do not even abstain from males 
but perform shocking acts, males with males; who defile in every way just 
the most graceful and beautiful bodies; who drag the glorious handiwork 
of God’s creation in the dust - for beauty is not on the earth of itself 
but because it is sent by the hand and grace of God - these very people 
dare to lay at our door all the infamous things they are conscious of in 
themselves and even attribute them to their "ideal" gods, evidently 
because they consider them noble deeds, worthy of their gods!

Adulterers and corrupters of boys want to defame us who live in virginity 
or in strictly monogamous marriages! They, who actually live like fish of 
prey, gulp down everyone who comes their way, the stronger hunting down 
the weaker. Oh, what an outrage against human flesh when the laws, 
enacted by you and your ancestors with just consideration, are violated, 
when people are put under such pressure that the very governors appointed 
by you cannot cope with the lawsuits, when over and above this the people 
who have to suffer these things are not even allowed to hit back when 
struck and are expected to use only kind words when reviled! To be just 
alone is not enough because to be just means to repay like for like, but 
we have been commanded to go far beyond this, to be kind and patient.

How could anyone in his right mind accuse us of murder when we hold to 
such principles, for you have to kill someone if you want to eat human 
flesh!

Just as they lie in the first charge, so do they also in the second. If 
anyone were to ask them whether they have actually seen what they assert, 
not one of them would be brazen enough to say "yes." And yet we have 
slaves too, some more, some fewer. Nothing can remain hidden from them, 
but not one of them has ever invented such fables about us. We cannot 
bear to see a man or woman put to death, even justly! How then can anyone 
accuse us of murder and cannibalism?...How can we possibly kill anyone 
when we cannot even look on lest we are polluted with the guilt of murder 
and sacrilege! How can we possibly kill anyone, we who call those women 
murderers who take drugs to induce an abortion, we who say they will have 
to give an account before God one day! We are convinced that with God 
nothing goes unexamined, and that the body, after serving the irrational 
urges and lusts of the soul, will have its share in punishment. We have, 
therefore, every reason to detest even the slightest sin.

Athenagoras, A Plea Regarding Christians 32-35.


Bruderhof wrote:

> Greg G. wrote:
> 
>> Neither would we be put to death, nor would unjust people, and
>> demons, have any power over us, were it not for the fact that every
>> one who is born must die, without exception. We are glad, therefore,
>> when we are allowed to pay off this common debt.
>> 
>> Justin, Second Apology 11.
>> 
> 
> And now I want to turn to the person who asserts or believes that we
> are initiated by the murder and the blood of a little child. Can you
> think it possible that such a tender, tiny body should be gashed with
> mortal wounds, that anyone alive would slaughter a little baby hardly
> come into being, to spill, drain, and drink its innocent blood? Nobody
> can believe such a thing unless he is capable of doing it himself. But
> I do see people among you at times expose newly born children to wild
> beasts and birds and at other times put them to death by strangling or
> by other horrible means. Some women destroy the unborn child in their
> womb by taking drugs, thus committing infanticide before they are
> delivered. For us it is not permissible even to see or to hear of
> murder. Yes, we shrink so much from human blood that we do not even
> use the blood of animals in the food we eat.
> 
> Moreover, the rabble of demons has concocted the grandiose fable of 
> incestuous banquets against us to throw the mud of ugly shame upon the
> good name of our chastity. They tried, through the horror of these
> outrageous opinions about us, to turn people away from seeking the
> knowledge of the truth. Even Fronto, whom you cite, did not produce
> any evidence based on affirmed testimony but simply gave vent to
> rhetorical abuse. The banquets that we organize are as chaste as they
> are sober. We do not like sumptuous eating, nor do we prolong our
> meals with drinking bouts. We know how to temper our gaiety with
> seriousness. 
> 
> Minucius Felix, Octavius 30.1, 2, 6; 31.1, 5.
>




 46 Posts in Topic:
The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-22 09:18:46 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
"Megan R." <  2005-11-22 09:19:22 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-22 09:20:09 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof News <news1@  2005-11-22 09:19:50 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Greasy <contact@[EMAIL  2005-11-22 09:20:31 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-22 09:20:55 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
"Megan R." <  2005-11-22 09:21:18 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-22 13:37:41 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
"Megan R." <  2005-11-22 13:38:23 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof News <news1@  2005-11-22 16:48:05 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
"Megan R." <  2005-11-22 16:48:33 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof Communities <  2005-11-22 16:48:57 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-23 08:34:30 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
"Megan R." <  2005-11-23 08:35:38 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-23 08:36:11 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Jim <contact@[EMAIL PR  2005-11-23 08:36:35 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-23 08:38:39 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
"Greg G." <i  2005-11-23 08:39:33 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-23 08:39:59 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Jim <contact@[EMAIL PR  2005-11-23 08:40:30 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-23 16:44:00 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof News <news1@  2005-11-23 08:46:38 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
"Greg G." <i  2005-11-23 08:47:05 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
"Megan R." <  2005-11-23 11:44:31 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Mary <help@[EMAIL PROT  2005-11-23 13:23:22 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
"Megan R." <  2005-11-23 16:41:43 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof Communities <  2005-11-23 16:43:05 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
"Megan R." <  2005-11-24 14:39:21 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-24 14:41:44 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof Communities <  2005-11-24 14:47:58 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Jim <contact@[EMAIL PR  2005-11-24 15:42:14 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-24 16:44:08 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-25 14:56:18 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
"Megan R." <  2005-11-25 14:56:53 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Adam <contactbruderhof  2005-11-25 14:57:24 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
"Megan R." <  2005-11-25 16:26:20 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Greasy <contact@[EMAIL  2005-11-25 16:28:23 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
"Greg G." <i  2005-11-25 14:57:46 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-25 14:58:18 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
"Greg G." <i  2005-11-25 16:24:05 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-25 16:25:37 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Mary <help@[EMAIL PROT  2005-11-25 16:28:50 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof News <news1@  2005-11-25 16:37:52 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-25 16:38:17 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Greasy <contact@[EMAIL  2005-11-23 08:39:06 
Re: The Early Christians: Self-Portraits and Portrayals
Bruderhof News <news1@  2005-11-22 13:38:02 

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