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"Rufus" <vze235xx@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:l0mdd.5633$Ug4.822@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote
> in message news:4175c03e$0$23895$afc38c87@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> Jesus was deified centuries after his death by those who had never met
> him.
>> You can't rely on what he allegedly said 2000 years ago because all of
>> the
>> scriptures have been rewritten, copied and translated countless times
>> over
>> the centuries by zealous religionists who desperately wanted him to be
> their
>> god and saviour/hero.
>
> Got proof? Like maybe manuscripts of canonical books that show
evidence
> of
> re-writing? The only correct answer is "No." There is no evidence
that
> the
> text of the Bible has undergone revision. You're talking out of your
back
> side.
Although I don't have the proof at hand, I have read about scholars who
basically said what I said but with more detail and references.
One thing is for sure, the materials they wrote on 2000 years ago were
not
indestructible. They had to be copied many times over the centuries to
save
them and every time they re-wrote them they changed and excluded verses
(even removed whole books) to match the desired tenets of the country
leaders of the time. Emperor Constantine was one who made some of the
biggest changes.
--
Andrew W.
How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us. ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
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From: "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian
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Subject: Re: God doesn't exist - proof
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:09:01 +1000
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"Richard Jackson" <booger7035n14@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:Tb2dd.5087$SW3.3889@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> man I hope we do not start getting lost on this page
>
>
>
> "Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote
> in message news:417339f3$0$4310$afc38c87@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> Actually I don't follow any god. To me a god is a ruler with big
>> shoulders
>> who tells people what to do. Basically a big headed egotist. I don't
go
>> in
>> for that sort of thing.
>> I believe we are sovereign beings who have come here to experience
>> physicality and to test ourselves to see how easily we give away our
>> power
>> to others and let them control us.
>>
>
>
> AHHH, thiers the kick,
> God does not tell you what to do, he leaves you to your own if that is
> what you want, to live for eternity with out him, thats up to you, he
will
> not force you to live with him,
Obviously you don't believe in hell.
> and what real power does any man have? no man has power over someone
who
> does not give it to him.
No but we might have power over ourselves, that is, the power to fix our
mistakes and save ourselves.
>>
>> Ok. But it's difficult to be specific about things when there is no
way
>> to
>> verify what's true and what's not, so if one gets specific about
>> something
>> one can end up painting oneself into a corner.
>>
>
>
> well. not quite sure what to say,
> thiers where faith comes in.
Faith is what you put in someone else until you have enough knowledge and
resources to handle things yourself. It should only ever be used as a
tem****ary thing. It should never be used as an end, and it certainly
should
not be used as a foundation for building on, especially when an invisible
man who makes lots of ambiguous promises is involved.
> not really, be honest and as truth full as you are able, then how cane
you
> paint yourself into a corner, like at my work, (sometimes though i am
> ashamed of my big mouth), if I now something is right, I exspess it,
one
> of my bosses asked my wife one time " is your husband from another
> planet?"
Lol.
> because I cared about what I was doing and right or wrong for how
> I said it, id even tell of my boss if I thought differantly about
> something, never did paint myself into a corner and for some reason
they
> never fired me.
>
>>
>> You keep assuming and asserting that the bible has truth in it. What
>> makes you so certain?
>> I also can't understand how people can see clarity and meaning in the
>> bible
>> when it just goes on about another race from another era and half the
>> time
>> it doesn't properly explain what it's talking about.
>>
>>>>
>
> Faith,
> I never expect you to take my word, I pray that I interpet right the
> things I say, but in the end it is only Gods word that matters
What if they are the words of a dark god?
> ahhhh, theres a point, Israel is here and now after 1900 years of being
> dispersed, so one point is are the prophacies told in the bible 10's
and
> 100,s of years before they happened true, are the far futuer prophacies
> told starting to unfold and happen today?
That's the big question.
Nostradamus was able to make prophecies too.
> of course to see that you would
> have to know some of Israels earthly history and some of Israels bible
> history and pophacies. even with me their had to be a basic
understanding,
> of the covenants before anything started to make sence.
If you get deeply enough into anything it will start to make sense but I
suspect that the bible has a slight brain wa****ng effect. When something
is
so vague and ambiguous, the human brain is forced to start joining dots
where ever it can.
>>
>> By searching for information, one will only ever find other people's
>> thoughts and opinions about things which they have written down.
That's
>> about all we have in this world, other people's thoughts and opinions.
>>
>>>>>>
>
> that is true!, but you will find 100's of and more of peoples thoughts,
> opinions, but also records, documents, and others that had nothing to
do
> with personal opinion, just standard county records, diarys, which were
> not ment for anyone, put them together and the truth will come out, I
know
> its true, a lie always makes full circle and comes back on you
eventually.
Yes, and many lies have already made their full circle. We call them
bible
contradictions and absurdities.
>> Like what? The sun is hot? The earth is round? Maybe a few others but
not
>> many.
>
>
> thats true, you know the sun is hot because you feel it, and no matter
> what someone tells you , you know its true, how do you know for sure
the
> earth is round? seen it? ( did not mean that to sound funny or
anything)
We've seen telescope photos of other planets and they were round. It
would
be strange if our planet was the only one in the galaxy that wasn't.
>>
>> All we have in this world are other people's documented facts, and as
you
>> know, people often get things wrong.
>> Christians seem to get all their facts from the self-witnessing bible
and
>> a few Christian writers and pastors, plus some archaeologists who are
>> mostly also Christians who draw biased conclusions to bolster their
own
>> beliefs before spreading it to others.
>>
>
> can not argue with that!
> sad to say, not all professing Chistians, are true Christians, not all
> people that go to church are saved, and going to church is not what
saves
> you.
Yep. To every Christian, a true Christian is the one who agrees 100% with
what he/she believes.
> i am sure we all know, people are people in this world, thier are the
good
> and the bad and we cannot escape it while we live on the earth as it
is.
>
>
>
> acually it nevers said that a day was a 24 hour period, but in 2nd
peter
> it says
>
> 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day
is
> with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
>
> I belive a 1000 year day has to do with after God created man, he never
> stated a specific time period during creation. what is a day to someone
> that has eternity.
> he has! he never ment for us to be sinners against him, we choose that.
A god who can be offended is a god with an ego. There is no reason to
believe that we have ever offended anyone in another realm. It is humans
who
love to play reward and punishment games.
> and how could he be grandstanding, attention-seeking when he has been
> silent for 1900 + years?
His poor communication skills are arguably what got us into this mess in
the
first place. If the president of a country was half as elusive as the
bible
god has been then his country too would be in a big mess.
> no he has not demanded you do anything you do not want to do,
No, he'll just invite me to a big bar-BQ if I don't do what he says.
> now Israel
> was the only nation given all the laws as a conditional promise between
> Israel and God, which they did not keep.
And they payed for it. Case closed. Time to move on.
>
> now he did also command man to love his woman, but he never commanded
> woman to love her man, why, just as you said, the man gives love to the
> woman and one would hope that love to be returned, the same with God,
he
> has given his love to us and wold hope that love to be returned.
But he's not just hoping to get love in return, in Mathew 22:36 he's
commanding it.
Only someone with an ego spends so much time trying to get love, and look
at
how many people he's slaughtered to get it so far.
>>
>> - Saving up vengeance during a persons lifetime and then delivering
the
>> punishment (torture actually) in one king-hit without having kept the
>> person informed about how many bad points they've accumulated so far.
If
>> the person doesn't know how many bad points there are against them
then
>> they're not motivated to change and improve themselves. Clearly the
>> Christian god is not interested in helping humans develop and improve
>> themselves but only in carrying out his domination, wrath and
vengeance
>> plans.
>>
>
>
> he does not save up vengance,
Preparing an eternal torture after death is what I call saving up your
vengeance.
If a person does receive God's discipline during their lifetime, they
rarely
know for sure exactly what it was for, evidenced by the fact that they
usually end up doing it again. Random discipline has never been a good
teacher. The bible god's methods are rather shoddy. That's why I think it
was all man's invention.
> and you know if you have done something wrong, unles you are saying,
> murder, hate, greed , lieing, stealing, and i am sure even you can
think
> of many more, are these the bad points you are talking about?
Yes.
But most are vague. Thou shalt not kill for example seems simple enough
but
when you go to war, what do you do? Kill.
When you are hungry, what do you do? Kill an animal that has never hurt
you.
It doesn't say that it's ok to kill an animal does it? What about trees?
They're a form of life too.
Thou shalt not lie is another. If you don't lie when someone asks you how
good they look or how good they're cooking is then you will hurt them.
It's whether you hurt someone or not that determines what is right or
wrong
and you don't always know when you've hurt someone.
> accually he is very interested in helping, but how many let him? do
you?
How do you know he's interested in helping? Because it says so in the
bible?
>
>
>> - The blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The Christian god didn't give a
>> damn who offended him because he accepted the human blood sacrifice of
>> someone who wasn't even guilty of anything (his own son/himself) as
>> payment or ransom (remember that a ransom is associated with
terrorists
>> and kidnappers). Clearly all he wanted was someone's blood and death
(an
>> innocent), just like the ancient false Inca and Aztec gods etc. The
>> Christian god was obviously adopted and modelled on those old evil
gods
>> and was merely updated, fleshed out and beautified a little to make
>> him/it more easily accepted by the common rabble.
>
>
> accually Jesus Christ is the creator God himself,
Actually I think Jesus was deified hundreds of years after his death by
zealous scribes and translators. I believe he started out just a prophet
and
wise person originally. The more time passes the bigger a story gets,
especially if it's been re-written as many times and by as many people as
the scriptures have.
You can also look at it this way - it is said that we all have God's
spirit
breathed into us, just as Jesus had God's spirit in him. If we all have
God's spirit in us then that makes all of us his children and equal to
Jesus. This 'only son' business is just a beat up. Somewhere Jesus says -
what I have done, you can all do as well, and more.
> came and payed the price he demanded for our sins himself, since thier
was
> no way we could pay for it, yes he was inocent, but he loved us so much
he
> payed the price,
So he sets an outrageously high price and then he pays for it himself?
Heh, only the business minded Jews could think up a scenario like that.
It's an obvious ploy to get us to submit. It's the perfect way to make us
dependent on him for the rest of our existence. A benevolent creator
would
not get us into this kind of trouble in the first place.
> all sins of everyone throughout time was payed for, so the only thing
that
> will keep you from eternal life is not beliving what he did for you.
It's likely just part of the story.
> that
> simple, nothing you can do or need to, exept belive it.
If all we have to do is believe then why were we given a brain?
> good point, all others are false gods, there is only one true God, now
how
> could he be molded on false gods that came after he created heaven,
earth
> and then man.
We don't know much about his creating of heaven and earth but we do know
for
a fact that long before YHWH came along, there were false god's who
called
for very similar blood sacrifice rituals as his latter ones. You know the
saying - if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...
>
>
>> If the Christian god was really good then he would have instead called
>> for the death of the guilty only. The sacrificing of innocents for the
>> pagan type gods is a tremendous waste of life and an obvious
deception.
>> It just leaves more evil people in the world which clearly shows that
>> those gods were evil because they wanted to increase the numbers of
their
>> kind. The Christian god's acceptance of these types of blood
sacrifices
>> (human and animal) plainly shows that he's a remnant of them also.
>
>
> yes he should have, thats what man would do, and we are all guilty, so
by
> that standard he should have wiped us out right at the start.
>
See this is the kind of destructionist mentality this doctrine is
designed
to foster. Can you not see the evil in this?
We indict ourselves and then we call for our own destruction. Brilliant.
>
> I told you you can not understand scripture by one verse, you need to
> study it all for the truth to come out. never trust anyone who will
build
> doctine on one verse, thats what cults do.
> if you had to study the life of one man do you not study everything you
> can find on him or do you belive the first thing you find or what
someone
> else tells you?
Scholars have been studying the scriptures for centuries and people are
still arguing over what most of it means exactly.
For example, according to Matthew [16:28], [24:34], Mark [9:1] and Luke
[9:27], Christ was supposed to have returned during the lifetimes of the
apostles. Some say that Christ has already returned while most are still
looking up in the sky waiting for him. And look at all the thousands of
tear-away Christian denominations. Christianity is clearly in shambles.
>
> still learning myself, soooo much thier, takes patiance and time and
> honest searching
Hmm. Keep you busy it does. Busy while certain forces take this beautiful
world closer and closer to destruction.
>>
>> If sin means to "Miss the mark" then why does missing the mark carry a
>> death sentence?
>> It makes no sense. Humans learn most by missing the mark and making
>> mistakes.
>> Do you condemn a child to death every time he/she misses a mark, or do
>> you show him/her how to do it better instead so they learn something?
>> The Christian god is obviously not interested in us learning anything.
He
>> just likes to dominate and punish us like a common demon.
>>
>>>
>
> ahhh, you have not studied, he has tried to show the world, how often
do
> you pick up his word to learn?
The reason I don't study it is because I don't believe that the bible is
the
word of the creator of all things and I don't understand why Christians
do.
Can you explain to me why they (and you) do?
>>
>> Well guess what. Man's religion is what's responsible for bringing us
the
>> bible.
>>
>
> in a way thats true, but Gods word was around a long time before mans
> religion, if the religions of today are what you mean,
Don't you see the ancient pre history religions to be religions too?
In many ways they were very similar to the Judaeo Christian religion.
> he did give his
> word to israel but they ignored his meanings as history and the bible
> verify.
>
>>
>> The gospels contain a lot of self justifying propaganda. The thousands
of
>> individuals who re-wrote and edited the scriptures over the centuries
had
>> plenty of time to make it look convincing, pleasing and godly. There
have
>> been some very creative minds in the world in the past. They weren't
all
>> dim and illiterate back then.
>>
>
> no, thats just what you heard, have you studied it?
I've tried many times but it's too vague and difficult to understand. A
benevolent creator would have authored something that everyone can
understand and he would have provided one to every country straight away.
But since this is an experiential world I don't believe that a creator
would
give us a book to begin with because he would know that it would cause
too
many bitter arguments (like in this NG).
> if thats what you belive and its so convincing, pleasing and godly why
do
> you have a problem with it?
Because my instincts tell me that it was not authored by a benevolent
supernatural creator.
Consider this. The people of Israel were a violent and waring people, and
surprise surprise, their god also just happens to be a god of war and
violence. He's a mirror image of them.
Further, have you noticed that the enemy of each nations god is always
the
same as the enemy of the people - the other nation/religion? Coincidence?
I
don't think so.
>>
>> It's more a trick to rob people of their inner power and freedom of
>> choice than a joke.
>>
>
>
> and how does it do that? and what freedom has the Gods word ever taken
> from you,
The freedom of choice for a start. We are told that we have free choice
on
earth, but how many choices do we have? Two: Bow to God or die. Two
choices
do not constitute free choice, especially if one of those choices leads
to
death. Then there is only one amicable and viable choice, just one, and
one
choice is no choice. Free choice means we can choose whatever we want
without any threats. This is a big universe and there's lots we could do.
Also, when God tells us that he wants us to choose *his* choice, he's
actually violating our free choice because now we're afraid of the
consequences, so our choice gets skewed. And what is the possible
consequence? Not just death, but eternal torture in fire. Wonderful god
he
is.
Consider this quote:
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure
uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities,
that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes
the sense that there is an outside.
~ Allan Bloom. The Closing of the American Mind.
>>
>> If you have to believe in something unseen in order to avoid fatal
>> consequences then it's clearly a fear tactic to get you to give away
your
>> power and choice and become a slave to a power mogul. Fear is a tactic
>> used by evil to gain easy compliance and passivity, and we all know
how
>> the Lord loves those who are passive.
>>
>
> again what power and choice does it does it take from you, it gives you
> power not to fear this world, as this world will pass away, and if it
is
> all a joke then go ahead, eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die,
but
> if not?
If he really helped and educated us properly then there wouldn't be any
fear
or trouble.
Knowledge is power. Until one gains extra knowledge, one feels certain
that
there isn't any. There is a lot more knowledge out here than we've been
told. I've found out some already and it's incredible what possibilities
exist in this universe. The possibilities are literally endless.
>>
>
> again , he hates no one, he payed our price out of his own pocket so to
> speak,
Yes he does. He hates Satan, he hates human nature, he hates anyone who
doesn't give him daily attention and who isn't trying to become perfect
like
him.
> no hatred toward anyone but God? why, he has never done anything to
you,
> he lets you live as you will.
I don't hate God. I simply reject bible religion.
>
>
>> --
>> Andrew W.
>>
>> "If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save
>> you..."
>
> and what is it you bring forth, mans love? take a look at the world,
97%
> of what you see is mans love, no one notices Gods love
>
> whoops, wife went to bed, think i better go, I do not have a doghouse ,
> thank God she's understanding
> Richard jackson
Don't have a wife myself. Life is much easier and cheaper without one I
think.
--
Andrew W.
How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us. ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
From: ujb <u...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.talk.creationism,alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: The Miracles of God
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:52:18 -0400
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R Brown wrote:
>
> "j w @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>" <john_w<no> wrote in message
> news:osoln05aaagg0ga6orlib7k25ke0rpm86i@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > x-no-archive: yes
> > On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:42:34 GMT, "R Brown" <rbr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > wrote:
> > copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
> > group)
> >>
> >>"j w @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>" <john_w<no> wrote in message
> >>news:echkn0h6gpprfnvak8dtmejb4ce3timidb@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>> x-no-archive: yes
> >>> On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 05:29:16 GMT, "R Brown" <b...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
> >>> copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
> >><snip>
> >>> Now tell me: what is the scientific theory of
> >>>>creationism?
> >>>
> >>> Why bother? You have already told me there is no such thing.
> >>>
> >>And I guess your complete and total inability to provide one proves
it
> >>conclusively. C'mon, don't be coy. Make a total liar out of me - if
you
> >>can.
> >>I say you can't because there really is no such thing as "Scientific
> >>Creationism".
> >>>>>>
> >><snip rant about Manhattan Project>
> >
> > See what I mean? If I say anything with which you don't agree, like
> > about my buddy on the Manhattan Project, I'm 'ranting."
> >
> > So give me some reason to answer you?
> >
> > You haven't yet. You've merely vomited your Satanic babble.
> >
> > Ask with some tolerance, and some respect, and we MIGHT just
continue.
> >
> > I won't hold my breath, but I suggest that YOU do, waiting for me to
> > answer your hostility.
> >
> > :)
> > jw
> >
> >>> You don't believe because you CHOOSE NOT TO.
> >
> > snipped the stream of drool from your chin. It really was disgusting.
> > (if you can call me a "ranter", I can call you a "drooler")
> >
> > I mean do you REALLY think you can intimidate, ridicule, and
> > alpha-male me into submission? Grow up1
> >
> > You aren't HALF as smart as I am on one of my bad days.
> >
> I ask only a simple, straight forward request:
> Spare me your religious outlook - I think I'm quite familiar with it -
let's
> just cut to the chase scene.
> Share with me the Scientific Theory of Creationism and how it can be
tested
> using the scientific method.
> I am a high school science teacher - the very guy you're looking for -
the
> one you want to win over so that I will teach scientific creationism in
my
> biology class. I'm waiting to see the science in scientific creationism
- if
> there is such a thing.
You can read this post by who it seems is also the "scrambled one"
(johnny weatherly) when posting under the name of John Seeks? This is
one of his "the can of tuna fish" mixed up stories.
<http://groups.google.co.nz/groups?selm=361672EC.BAB03055%
40hotmail.com&output=gplain>
ujb
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic > justification of sola
scriptura.... -
View Parsed
Path: fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail
From: ujb <uji...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.roman-
catholic,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.christian.adventist,alt
..religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.lutheran
Subject: Re: justification of sola scriptura....
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:42:32 -0500
Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com
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John Weatherly wrote:
>
> x-no-archive: yes
> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:27:12 -0800, Mark <rogerpearse.caneatmy.smegma>
> wrote:
> copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
> group)
> >On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:20:49 -0800, j w <j_w<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >
> >>x-no-archive: yes
> >>On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:03:04 -0800, Mark
<rogerpearse.caneatmy.smegma>
> >>wrote:
> >> copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
> >>group)
> >>>On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 19:39:17 GMT, "Chuckles" <nesp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>"Mark" <m...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 03:26:59 -0800, j w <j_w<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> >x-no-archive: yes
> >>>>
> >>>>> Oh, that's right. You're an X-no-archive coward.
> >>>>
> >>>>That happened after JW got caught trolling Usenet for ***** ****.
> >>>
> >>>Oh, my --- Johnny aka Pr0no Boy is one sick ****.
> >>
> >>If you wish to believe such rubbish, be my guest. Just get in line
for
> >>libel action if you continue to talk that crap.
> >
> >That would put you in the impossible position of proving that you're
> >not a sick ****.
> >Given all the ***** pr0n you have created (with the alleged felching
> >scenes and whatnot), you'll lose.
>
> Prove I've written any ***** fiction, asshole. I can prove I didn't.
Mark,
A few of the names I think the 'scrambled one' has used in the past? You
can
check them at google when JW takes you before the judge, or ask in the
Baptist
group as many have archived the addle boy.
jayw...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
john_se...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
same in post:
http://www.google.com/groups?q=author:jaywest%
40hotmail.com&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=35F0E80B.BE5B870F%
40hotmail.com&rnum=6
shows jwest is is johnw:
http://www.google.com/groups?q=author:jaywest%
40hotmail.com&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=35AF2DA9.2F4CA13E%
40hotmail.com&rnum=15
http://www.google.com/groups?q=author:jaywest%
40hotmail.com&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=6of7rl%24svb%
40bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net&rnum=38
j...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
D. Weatherly
john...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"John Sheets" <john_weatherl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
jayw...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
j...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
john_se...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
john_weatherl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
john_weathe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
angry...
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
john...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
w...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> justification of sola
scriptura....
archive threat ujb - View Parsed
Path: fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail
From: ujb <uji...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.roman-
catholic,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.christian.adventist,alt
..religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.lutheran
Subject: Re: justification of sola scriptura.... archive threat ujb
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:49:33 -0500
Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com
Lines: 90
Message-ID: <41ABD1AD.C203BE9@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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"j w
>
> x-no-archive: yes
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 04:42:32 -0500, ujb <uji...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
> group)
> >John Weatherly wrote:
> >>
> >> x-no-archive: yes
> >> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:27:12 -0800, Mark
<rogerpearse.caneatmy.smegma>
> >> wrote:
> >> copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
> >> group)
> >> >On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:20:49 -0800, j w <j_w<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>x-no-archive: yes
> >> >>On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:03:04 -0800, Mark
<rogerpearse.caneatmy.smegma>
> >> >>wrote:
> >> >> copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
> >> >>group)
> >> >>>On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 19:39:17 GMT, "Chuckles" <nesp...
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >> >>>wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>"Mark" <m...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 03:26:59 -0800, j w <j_w<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> >x-no-archive: yes
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> Oh, that's right. You're an X-no-archive coward.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>That happened after JW got caught trolling Usenet for *****
****.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Oh, my --- Johnny aka Pr0no Boy is one sick ****.
> >> >>
> >> >>If you wish to believe such rubbish, be my guest. Just get in line
for
> >> >>libel action if you continue to talk that crap.
> >> >
> >> >That would put you in the impossible position of proving that
you're
> >> >not a sick ****.
> >> >Given all the ***** pr0n you have created (with the alleged
felching
> >> >scenes and whatnot), you'll lose.
> >>
> >> Prove I've written any ***** fiction, asshole. I can prove I
didn't.
> >
> >Mark,
> >A few of the names I think the 'scrambled one' has used in the past?
You can
> >check them at google when JW takes you before the judge, or ask in the
Baptist
> >group as many have archived the addle boy.
>
> You truly don't want to live a long, healthy life, do you, asswipe?
Addle boy I was talking with Mark, please don't interrupt. Didn't your
care
givers teach you anything? Now about this new threat, would you do sweet
sweet
harm just for helping a wayfaring stranger? :)
jimmy
> jw
> >
> >jayw...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
john_se...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
same in post:
> >http://www.google.com/groups?q=author:jaywest%
40hotmail.com&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=35F0E80B.BE5B870F%
40hotmail.com&rnum=6
> >shows jwest is is johnw:
> >http://www.google.com/groups?q=author:jaywest%
40hotmail.com&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=35AF2DA9.2F4CA13E%
40hotmail.com&rnum=15
> >http://www.google.com/groups?q=author:jaywest%
40hotmail.com&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=6of7rl%24svb%
40bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net&rnum=38
> >j...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >jon_we...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >john_se...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >john_weathe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >john_weatherl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >john_weatherl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >john_weathe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >angry...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >prophet_...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >bobw...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >j...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >John D. Weatherly
> >john...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >w...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >joh...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >"John Sheets" <john_weatherl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >
> >jayw...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
j...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
john_se...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >john_weathe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >john_weatherl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
john_weathe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
angry...
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >prophet_...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >john...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
w...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >ujb
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:352927 alt.religion.christianity:277620
aus.religion:71803 aus.religion.christian:190272
Path: sn-us!sn-xit-12!sn-xit-01!sn-xit-14supernews.com!
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From: "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,alt.religion.chr
istianity,aus.religion,aus.religion.christian
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>
Subject: Re: Why do we get punished?
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 20:31:44 +1100
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"Og" <Og@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:10srmvd7pdbuiaa@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "Andrew W (Paranormal Agnostic)" <nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote
> in message news:41cd1b72$0$1124$afc38c87@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> "bob young" <alaspectrum@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> news:41CCEC9F.1734EE77@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >
>> >
>> > Og wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> From what I have read energy is a tem****ary thing. Once
>> >> used up it ceases to exist. Such as kenetic energy stored in
>> >> a moving object. The energy exists only untill the moving object
>> >> hits something or is stopped by drag.
>> >
>> > energy cannot be created or destroyed. it is an established law of
>> > physics
>>
>>
>> Further, the energy does not actually get 'used up'. It is merely
being
>> converted into a different form - sometimes totally different, and
> sometimes
>> into a form that is almost unperceivable to us.
>> When you run an electric motor you're not using up electricity, you're
>> converting it into kinetic energy.
>> When you put the brakes on in a car, kinetic energy is being converted
> into
>> heat energy.
>
> You mean the heat generated between the drum and brake shoe?
> That makes sense. But I don't see how such a thing could ever
> be alive, concious or sentient.
That's something we don't quite understand yet, but there are many
different
kinds of energy in the universe and no doubt many that we haven't yet
found
a way to detect.
It's possible that certain kinds of energy can form an intelligence
matrix
over time to the point where it becomes conscious of itself. Then maybe
it
started to split itself off into smaller units to experience it's
surroundings and itself from a second and third perspective.
After that it's possible that it learned to densify particles together to
form matter.
This is how I believe the concept known as 'god' probably started out.
I believe that god is an energy based life form (which is basically what
spirit is), but I don't believe that there is only one out there. I think
that was just man's idea.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:352939 alt.religion.christianity:277644
aus.religion:71818 aus.religion.christian:190290
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From: "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,alt.religion.chr
istianity,aus.religion,aus.religion.christian
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>
Subject: Re: Why do we get punished?
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 23:50:34 +1100
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"Qolon" <telos@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:G4wzd.88826$K7.29479@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> More than that, I gave you the intelligence matrix entry relevant to
the
> time, obtained from its sychronisation with the apeiron as the point.
>
> Which is also consistent with the Genesis view, that all occurrence
which
> can be measured in time comes from the apeiron, but the relativity of
the
> time sequence itself underlies the religious statement that God is
'arch
> kai
> teles' {ie. Telos = Arch + cē : Genesis/Arch as (22/7) 3W1D ... Jubilee
&
> Torah @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sinai as 50J + 12 x 6J as 'oth 294 year cycle + 3W1D = 6,000
> (122J3W1D) years as Saturday 1 January 2000 + solar eclipse on 25
December
> 2000 + 6 days = Telos}, which as the logos, penetrates and rules all
> being.
>
> To which you unredeemably responded: "Did you accidentally reply to the
> wrong post?"
>
> Quite frankly, I get a little tired of godlesss individuals such as you
> and
> and others such as the example of Roman Catholics from St Ignatius, who
> make
> a pretense over human rights as is the example of the Bakhtiyaris
illegal
> immigrants, at the same time deny us our human, religious and
> Constitutional
> Rights--Is it possible that we will get an apology from them, or is
their
> recent Christian exclamations of peace and goodwill to all men, nothing
> but
> platitudes, hypocrisy and a lie.
You obviously believe in cosmic totalitarian rule like all other
christians.
Sad.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved nor
disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:352983 alt.religion.christianity:277769
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From: "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>
Subject: Re: Why do we get punished?
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:59:27 +1100
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"Qolon" <telos@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:YhEzd.89169$K7.10274@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> If you neither use the idioms of spirituality, nor have any fidelity to
> its
> hermeneutic, nor can you explain the spiritual relation****p and origins
of
> the language you are using, then your are simply talking in circular
> riddles
> and syllogisms--There is no justification for own claim to spirituality
is
> ambivalent superficiality akin to hypocrisy!
>
> Personally I find it a contradiction of a feeble mind to be claiming a
> spiritual prerogative as anti-Semitism.
Personally I find it a feeble mind who keeps pointing out other peoples
feeble minds.
Only jo****ng!
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved - to
others, nor disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
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From: "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Subject: Re: Why do we get punished?
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 12:19:33 +1100
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"Lavender Girl" <you.don't@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:h2tat0dj403npg4kmqr3mc52smev0q41li@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 07:41:18 +1100, "Phyllis Sofficle"
> <phisoff@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>"tykkea" <tykkea811@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>news:1103312727.266834.198340@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Phyllis Sofficle wrote:
>>>> If we suffer for our sins while we're alive then why do we have to
>>> suffer
>>>> again when we die?
>
> Christians do not suffer again after death.
They do if they fail to comply with their god's demands.
>
> First, Christians do not hate themselves.
Much to God's disappointment. Many do actually.
> God teaches us that we are
> sinners.
You don't 'teach' something like that.
And what is the definition of 'sinner'? The definition seems to change
with
every different christian I ask.
How can you avoid something you cannot even properly define?
> We can read His Word to know this.
How do you know it's His word and not man's word? Because the bible told
you?
> We know this just from
> life's experiences just as in the "over five year old children"
> example that follows. The fact is you are lying when you make a
> blanket statement that; 1) Christians have been taught to hate
> themselves, 2) Christians can never do anything right, 3) Christians
> have no self-esteem, 4) Christians can not perform at one's best and
> thus they will never succeed at anything. Is this what your
> "education and social experience" have taught you? ...or is this the
> "evil, filthy sinner" surfacing in you as it does me and all others?
What it has taught me is that this dark injustice against humanity *is*
going on and has for thousands of years.
You are still yet to learn this.
Why do you believe you're a sinner? Is it because a book told you? Do you
believe everything you read in a foreign book that's full of Jewish
holier
than thou exhortations?
>
>>> From cradle to
>>> grave. Do you have a child over age 5? Then you know that children do
>>> not have to be taught to lie; they lie on their own.
>>
>>That's due to a lack of education and social experience.
>>What do you expect from immature minds?
>
> ...and you've just admitted the point that sin is inherent.
No I haven't.
Having a poor education is not inherited as such, and having a poor
education is also not a crime. It is just the result of having a poor
teacher or being created with an inferior brain.
Obviously 'sin' is not a crime, but has more to do with imperfection, but
then why is imperfection punished so harshly? Who's the one who made us
imperfect?
These are the questions that christians continually fail to answer
without
resorting to pseudo-mystical babble.
If a lack of education is inherent then the bible god is at fault because
he
either created Adam and Eve imperfect or he failed to educate them about
the
dangers of talking to strange serpents.
>>
>>That's simply because they haven't yet been taught that they must be
>>careful
>>with other people's feelings - they don't yet know that their actions
can
>>severely affect other's feelings.
>>Again, it comes down to education and experience.
>
> Look around you - adult people are hurting other adult people every
> day. It isn't because of untaught social norms - it's a sin problem.
I can't properly answer this comment until you can tell me exactly what a
'sin' is.
The main reason people are going around hurting each other is because we
are
constantly being manipulated by the christian Satan.
Your god refuses to remove him and his minions from this world no matter
how
much we ask him to (umm, has anyone ever thought to ask him to do this?).
No wonder we keep going back to square one. What do you expect us to do?
Satan has many unfair advantages over us - he's invisible, he's psychic,
he's powerful, he lies. We haven't got a chance against him.
It is grossly unfair and yet your righteous god lets this unfair game
continue unabated.
It's abundantly clear that God is gaining some enjoyment out of it which
shows that he is evil - in fact he and Satan are probably buddies, or
maybe
even the same person. Did you ever think of that?
Maybe the whole sin story is just a government tool for mass manipulation
to
keep us powerless and quiet while they fleece us for every cent and strip
the land bare.
>>
>>Is not the Christian God selfish also? Wanting everyone to love *him*
>>above
>>all others, wanting everyone to only wor****p *him*, wanting everyone to
>>only
>>follow *his* plan and will, and taking selfish revenge on anyone who
>>doesn't?
>
> Is that too much for God to ask of you?
It all depends on whether he's good or evil. So far all we have to tell
us
that he's good is one book that was authored by some superstitious
barbaric
Jews 2000 years ago. Are you going to trust one such book with your life?
> After all, your very
> existance is because of Him.
Because of who?
He hasn't even been properly identified yet. He remains a nebulous
individual.
You cannot honestly attribute this, that and the other to someone who is
nebulous.
If you get a flat tyre then I can easily claim that God did it. How the
heck
are you going to dispute that? We might as well be talking about UFOs,
aliens or ghosts. You can make them say or do anything you want because
it's
not like they're going to come down and stick up for themselves.
The christian world is a fools world.
> ...and yes, our God is a jealous God and
> wants to be wor****pped above all.
Let me guess. You read that in the umm...bible?
If he wants to be wor****pped then he has an ego.
> The "selfish revenge" you refer to
> is sin which God hates.
Revenge is evil and hate is a fear based human emotion. Revenge is a
human
tendency too by the way, along with an obsession with perfection and
purity.
Your Jewish god appears to be racked with destructive human emotions.
Why is that?
Can you not see that early humans moulded their gods around their own
frail
natures?
> He hates the sin, not the sinner and will
> judge all after our physical death.
Being judgemental with 'extreme prejudice' is also a prominent
authoritarian
human trait.
> But then again, you don't believe
> in God, do you? No problem, you just keep hiding in the dark and wait
> out your time and see what happens. In other words, take your chances
> buddy.
It's not that I don't believe in God (I'm an agnostic, not an atheist).
It's
that I don't believe that the cosmic creative force is a single
individual
and that there are no other entities with any power in the cosmos.
I believe that the 'one almighty god' doctrine was just some ancient
spiritual leader's way of centralising control over the people.
I believe that there are probably creative forces in existence and that
these creative forces are intelligent and decent enough (most of them
anyway) not to throw their weight around against smaller defenceless
creatures.
The bible god is a poor construct, only christians don't have enough
education in spiritual/energy/cosmic concepts to see it yet and your
heavily
government censored bible doesn't teach you hardly anything about these
concepts.
>
>>> If i avoided really answering your question here, so what? :-)
>>>
>>
>>You answered my question nicely. Christianity is a death and vengeance
>>cult.
>
> Unsubstantiated statement!
Can be substantiated with questions, leading to research, study, and
self-education.
The problem is christians are taught not to ask dangerous questions,
otherwise they risk missing out on their big fat reward, and possibly
ending
up being tortured forever in a big hot fire.
Also they're taught not to listen to anything except their government
compiled bible and the local preacher, because evvvverything else is
EVIL!
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved - to
others, nor disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
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From: "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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<vm1bt05q801app8udr18rj01psulaelo70@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Subject: Re: Why do we get punished?
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 18:12:53 +1100
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"Lavender Girl" <you.don't@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:vm1bt05q801app8udr18rj01psulaelo70@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:44:30 +1100, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
> <nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Look in your bible.
>>
>>Any human that doesn't do everything the bible god says is considered
>>trash.
>>You trash what you hate or what is not useful to you, do you not?
>
> I looked in my Bible and still can't find it. Show me.
Gen 6: 6-7
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it
grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face
of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls
of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved - to
others, nor disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
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From: "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>
Subject: Re: Why do we get punished?
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 20:34:25 +1100
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<Robert> wrote in message news:de5ct0d2bejnimqqqn1uaveqcqatc7juuv@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 12:19:33 +1100, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
> <nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>Why do you believe you're a sinner? Is it because a book told you? Do
you
>>believe everything you read in a foreign book that's full of Jewish
holier
>>than thou exhortations?
>
> Is this how you view the Bible? Could you explain how you came to
> have this view?
See my website - 'about' page.
>
>>Having a poor education is not inherited as such, and having a poor
>>education is also not a crime. It is just the result of having a poor
>>teacher or being created with an inferior brain.
>>Obviously 'sin' is not a crime, but has more to do with imperfection,
but
>>then why is imperfection punished so harshly? Who's the one who made us
>>imperfect?
>>These are the questions that christians continually fail to answer
without
>>resorting to pseudo-mystical babble.
>
> What kind of answers do you consider "pseudo-mystical babble?"
Answers that assert concepts such as virgin birth, eternal life, eternal
suffering, sin, death in sin, inheritance of original sin, rising form
death, blood sacrifice, cleansing by blood, transfer of sin, transfer of
righteousness, etc. etc. etc.
>
>>If a lack of education is inherent then the bible god is at fault
because
>>he
>>either created Adam and Eve imperfect or he failed to educate them
about
>>the
>>dangers of talking to strange serpents.
>
> Why is God to blame for man's mistakes?
He isn't to blame, because there is no need for blame, but if there was
then
it would be because of a failure in the education department.
The garden of Eden story is just allegory.
That's why it's so simplistic and short on details.
Humans make mistakes. That's how we learn. There's nothing wrong with
making
mistakes.
There is no sky god jumping up and down, growling over our mistakes, and
there is no punishment for such.
It's all just stories.
>
>>The main reason people are going around hurting each other is because
we
>>are
>>constantly being manipulated by the christian Satan.
>>Your god refuses to remove him and his minions from this world no
matter
>>how
>>much we ask him to (umm, has anyone ever thought to ask him to do
this?).
>>No wonder we keep going back to square one. What do you expect us to
do?
>>Satan has many unfair advantages over us - he's invisible, he's
psychic,
>>he's powerful, he lies. We haven't got a chance against him.
>>It is grossly unfair and yet your righteous god lets this unfair game
>>continue unabated.
>
> God has a plan that deals with Satan. All those who trust in Christ
> will win.
Stories. Do some balanced and objective research and get educated.
>
>>It's abundantly clear that God is gaining some enjoyment out of it
which
>>shows that he is evil - in fact he and Satan are probably buddies, or
>>maybe
>>even the same person. Did you ever think of that?
>
> What are you basing this on?
Rationality and reason.
> How is it "abundantly clear" that God is
> evil?
The christian god teaches us to hate and deny ourselves. What kind of
sick
and evil parent would raise their child to hate themselves? Then he
teaches
us that everything we do is completely worthless and then commands us to
give up all our life pleasures and possessions and spend our whole life
praising and flattering him. What kind of egotistical parent would coerce
their children into praising and flattering him for their whole lives?
What
kind of wicked parent would make their child believe that it has to be
dependant on him it's whole life or be severely punished, killed or
tortured? Then he tells us that we must study and obey an old book full
of
ancient Jewish mystical concepts even if we're not interested in the
mystical or don't understand it and if we don't then he'll let us perish.
What kind of god gives life for free and then asks for a death ransom
just
because of one mistake several millennia ago?
What kind of god promises unconditional love and then places conditions
on
it?
Only the christian god. That's who.
>
>>It's not that I don't believe in God (I'm an agnostic, not an atheist).
>>It's
>>that I don't believe that the cosmic creative force is a single
individual
>>and that there are no other entities with any power in the cosmos.
>>I believe that the 'one almighty god' doctrine was just some ancient
>>spiritual leader's way of centralising control over the people.
>>I believe that there are probably creative forces in existence and that
>>these creative forces are intelligent and decent enough (most of them
>>anyway) not to throw their weight around against smaller defenceless
>>creatures.
>
> Could you explain how you came to believe this? Who are these gods
> that you believe in?
They are not gods. Only primitives use that word to have something to
wor****p.
What they most likely are is advanced life forms.
Do you think that we, the christian god, the devil, and a bunch of angels
are the only life forms in the whole cosmos like the bible says?
>
>>The problem is christians are taught not to ask dangerous questions,
>>otherwise they risk missing out on their big fat reward, and possibly
>>ending
>>up being tortured forever in a big hot fire.
>>Also they're taught not to listen to anything except their government
>>compiled bible and the local preacher, because evvvverything else is
EVIL!
>
> What is a dangerous question?
Any question that question your god's authority, goodness, perfection,
righteousness etc. etc.
He's very sensitive about these kinds of questions because he's afraid of
you accidentally finding out the truth. Actually 'he' is really just the
church fathers. There is really no 'he'.
> And why would a person with a question
> be at risk for losing salvation?
Because it could lead to you find out the truth about the salvation
concept.
> I have questions that will probably
> not be answered until I meet God, but that doesn't mean that I will go
> to hell.
Why are you waiting until you meet god to ask it? By then the answer will
come to you anyway but you'll have lost interest in it. Now is when
you're
curious. Now is when you should ask it.
Questions are the beginning of wisdom.
>
> As for being taught to not listen to anything except the Bible and the
> local preacher, what do you base that on?
I base that on what believers here tell me and from the dark mystical
views
express.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved - to
others, nor disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
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From: "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Subject: Re: Why do we get punished?
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 10:30:30 +1100
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"Lavender Girl" <you.don't@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:7m2ft0hjaujorkm4v928k3qma4duhmste6@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 12:19:33 +1100, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
> <nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>"Lavender Girl" <you.don't@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>news:h2tat0dj403npg4kmqr3mc52smev0q41li@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 07:41:18 +1100, "Phyllis Sofficle"
>>> <phisoff@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"tykkea" <tykkea811@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>>news:1103312727.266834.198340@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> Phyllis Sofficle wrote:
>>>>>> If we suffer for our sins while we're alive then why do we have to
>>>>> suffer
>>>>>> again when we die?
>>>
>>> Christians do not suffer again after death.
>>
>>They do if they fail to comply with their god's demands.
>
> Once again, Christians do not suffer after death. Prove your
> statement.
But non believers allegedly do - even after they've suffered badly for
their
sins during their lives.
I think the original question probably should have read - If we suffer
for
our sins while we're alive then why is there a need for a hell?
I think that's what the original poster was trying to say.
>>>
>>> First, Christians do not hate themselves.
>>
>>Much to God's disappointment. Many do actually.
>
> Show me statistical evidence that many Christians hate themselves. Of
> the Christian friends I have, none hate themselves.
According to Christianity, our nature is sin, and we are taught to hate
sin.
Thus we must hate ourselves and die to ourselves.
>
>>> God teaches us that we are
>>> sinners.
>>
>>You don't 'teach' something like that.
>>And what is the definition of 'sinner'? The definition seems to change
>>with
>>every different christian I ask.
>>How can you avoid something you cannot even properly define?
>
> Let me clarify; 1) sin is not taught to us, it is inherent,
How can a mistake that took all of five minutes in a magical garden
paradise
goodness knows where be inherited forever? Genes can't be imprinted that
quickly. It's obviously just a story. Only a child would insist otherwise
without knowing for sure.
> 2) God
> teaches us through His living Word that we, the human race, are all
> sinners and, 3) sinner's sin.
What if it's not God's word? How can you be sure it is? Because 'it' says
so?
> It's a shame that every Christian
> you've encountered has a different definition for sinner.
That's obviously because no one knows exactly what it is.
Why? Because it's not explained properly, and that's either because the
creator of all things is a lousy teacher or the bible is not his word.
An apparently crucial concept like sin which is clearly a matter of life
and
death must be properly explained so that everyone can understand it,
otherwise you will only be able to blame yourself when your student gets
confused or remains ignorant.
> Perhaps
> part of the the problem may be that you can not reconcile a definition
> given your agnostic perspective.
It's blatantly obvious that no one sufficiently understands it.
>>
>>How do you know it's His word and not man's word? Because the bible
told
>>you?
>
> Now this question is getting much closer to the heart of the matter as
> far as you and Christians are concerned. Do you ever do any outside
> reading with regards to the issues you present in this forum? Do you
> even know anything about the "bible"? ...what it is? ...its history?
> ...how to study the bible?
Yes to all of the above.
I think you are avoiding the question because you're not sure you can
answer
it.
I've read from the bible many times and it's old world jabber.
You see I have a built in jabber detector and it goes crazy every time I
read some bible verses.
Obviously you somehow know how the creator speaks or something and that's
how you know it's his word.
>>
>>What it has taught me is that this dark injustice against humanity *is*
>>going on and has for thousands of years.
>>You are still yet to learn this.
>
> Let me rephrase to see if I understand you. Society and education has
> taught you that Christianity is the dark injustice against humanity
> that has been going on for thousands of years and I have still yet to
> learn this.
Correct. It's clearly a disempowerment and mind enslavement program.
> I beg to differ - society and education have taught me
> about the living God, the fall of man, a Savior and a promise of
> eternal life.
Correction.
Other zealots and a book written by Jewish zealots has taught you that.
> You are still yet to learn this. Apparently the
> society you hang with and the education you received are contrary to
> mine.
I don't hang with anyone. I work alone. I just question, reason and
follow
up.
>
>>Why do you believe you're a sinner? Is it because a book told you? Do
you
>>believe everything you read in a foreign book that's full of Jewish
holier
>>than thou exhortations?
>
> Perhaps if you do some objective research to the questions I presented
> to you about the Bible you could then answer your own questions.
I have and I think that you believe you're a sinner because you've been
told
that from a young age and you see trouble in the world so you assume that
this must be the reason because you haven't found a better explanation
yet.
>>
>>I can't properly answer this comment until you can tell me exactly what
a
>>'sin' is.
>>
>>The main reason people are going around hurting each other is because
we
>>are
>>constantly being manipulated by the christian Satan.
>
> It amazes me how someone like yourself, who does not believe in the
> God of the bible or believes that the bible is the living Word of God,
> can use a biblical character from the same to sup****t your argument.
I use christian myth characters for illustration purposes and because
christians would never believe me if I told them what I believe is really
occupying this world.
>
>>Your god refuses to remove him and his minions from this world no
matter
>>how
>>much we ask him to (umm, has anyone ever thought to ask him to do
this?).
>>No wonder we keep going back to square one. What do you expect us to
do?
>>Satan has many unfair advantages over us - he's invisible, he's
psychic,
>>he's powerful, he lies. We haven't got a chance against him.
>>It is grossly unfair and yet your righteous god lets this unfair game
>>continue unabated.
>>It's abundantly clear that God is gaining some enjoyment out of it
which
>>shows that he is evil - in fact he and Satan are probably buddies, or
>>maybe
>>even the same person. Did you ever think of that?
>>Maybe the whole sin story is just a government tool for mass
manipulation
>>to
>>keep us powerless and quiet while they fleece us for every cent and
strip
>>the land bare.
>>
>>
>>It's not that I don't believe in God (I'm an agnostic, not an atheist).
>>It's
>>that I don't believe that the cosmic creative force is a single
individual
>>and that there are no other entities with any power in the cosmos.
>>I believe that the 'one almighty god' doctrine was just some ancient
>>spiritual leader's way of centralising control over the people.
>>I believe that there are probably creative forces in existence and that
>>these creative forces are intelligent and decent enough (most of them
>>anyway) not to throw their weight around against smaller defenceless
>>creatures.
>>The bible god is a poor construct, only christians don't have enough
>>education in spiritual/energy/cosmic concepts to see it yet and your
>>heavily
>>government censored bible doesn't teach you hardly anything about these
>>concepts.
>
> So what do you believe as an agnostic?
I believe that we cannot know what exists in the non material realms, and
that those there evidently don't want us to know, and that we are here to
deal with what is at hand in this world, and that we should just try to
make
the best of our lives and learn to get along with others. I believe that
getting along with others is what true morality is about and we don't
need
to study a bible to understand that.
>
> Define agnostic for me and then tell me the reason(s) for your
> presence in this forum.
Agnostic: One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is
a
God.
I am here to present the other side of the story/issue. Everyone should
be
made aware of both sides of a story/issue in order to be able to make a
valid and informed free choice.
The Judeo-Christian bible only presents one side of the story.
I'm here to challenge the old doctrines / traditions / dogmas in case
they
are false (which there is reason to believe that they are).
I feel strongly that people have perpetuated old traditions from false
preconceptions purely out of passion, zealousness, a desire to continue
old
traditions, and a human need to have an almighty and benevolent authority
figure who is in total control of everything all the time.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved - to
others, nor disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
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From: "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
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Subject: Re: Why do we get punished?
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:02:12 +1100
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"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:lkcit0lokq716ba8atom9kk86t01h4rq6l@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 10:30:30 +1100, while scaling the
> Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
> <nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> pontificated:
>
>
>>> Once again, Christians do not suffer after death. Prove your
>>> statement.
>>
>>But non believers allegedly do - even after they've suffered badly for
>>their
>>sins during their lives.
>
> Tell me, how does a man who murders two people suffer
> enough to compensate for their sins?
"their sins"? The victim's sins? Is this a trick question?
I think you must have meant "his sins".
Anyway.
Making a person suffer cruelly isn't going to bring back the dead. This
kind
of punishment is merely revenge. Revenge is another human tendency which
man
has projected onto his god.
Re-education and reform of the offender would be a far more productive
solution, and in some cases it could be like a suffering in itself.
>
>
>>I think the original question probably should have read - If we suffer
for
>>our sins while we're alive then why is there a need for a hell?
>>
>>I think that's what the original poster was trying to say.
>
> See above.
See below above.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved - to
others, nor disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
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From: "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Subject: Re: Why do we get punished?
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 14:10:54 +1100
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"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:dfklt0pngetdcuiqj4s59b5r853008jbbv@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:02:12 +1100, while scaling the
> Mt. Everest, "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
> <nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> pontificated:
>
>>"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>
>>> Tell me, how does a man who murders two people suffer
>>> enough to compensate for their sins?
>>
>>"their sins"? The victim's sins? Is this a trick question?
>>I think you must have meant "his sins".
>
> Yes, I did. Thank you for the correction.
>
>
>>Anyway.
>>Making a person suffer cruelly isn't going to bring back the dead. This
>>kind
>>of punishment is merely revenge. Revenge is another human tendency
which
>>man
>>has projected onto his god.
>>Re-education and reform of the offender would be a far more productive
>>solution, and in some cases it could be like a suffering in itself.
>
> You did not answer the question that I asked, based on
> your comment. rather, you kind of stepped around it in
> your response (no offense intended).
>
> Lavender Girl: Once again, Christians do not suffer
> after death. Prove your statement.
>
> Andrew: But non believers allegedly do - even after
> they've suffered badly for their sins during their
> lives.
>
> Your premise was that the non believer has suffered
> badly for their sins during this life. So once again I
> ask you...
>
> How does a man who murders two people suffer enough to
> compensate for his sins?
>
> Correction applied. :)
What I was outlining was that the christian god appears to like seeing
his
creatures suffer, just like man likes seeing his enemies suffer. I was
merely acknowledging the fact that it happens.
Man can't do better than to make his enemies suffer but a loving creator
and
teacher should.
So I can't really answer your question because I don't actually believe
in
suffering and punishment, or as I call it, organised revenge, as an
effective, loving and compassionate reform mechanism. Though I think it
would work on mild criminals because it would be a shock for them to be
locked in a cell and it would give them time to think about things, but
for
hardened criminals, forget it. Reform is the only way for them.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved - to
others, nor disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
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From: "Andrew W \(Paranormal Agnostic\)"
<nospaam_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
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Subject: Re: Why do we get punished?
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 15:30:06 +1100
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"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:10tmmdbputnq0e5@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Our physical lives are not even mili-seconds in eternity, we tend to
make
> too big a deal of a blink of an eye, in our eternal life
To God it is, not to us. To us our suffering can be like an eternity.
No problem for God but. It's not he who feels the pain.
--
Andrew W. (Paranormal Agnostic) An interest in the paranormal (spiritual)
but with acknowledgement that it's existence can neither be proved - to
others, nor disproved (agnostic).
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has
been for us." ~ Pope Leo X (1513-1521)
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
From: ujb <uji...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: Computer Stories
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Don,
Here is part of the scrambled one's history in the AF. Read it
over and pick out the lies.
ujb
Don wrote:
>
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 01:23:38 -0800, j w <j_w<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> >x-no-archive: yes
> >On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 18:47:11 -0500, The official Usenet GHOST!
> >BOOOOOOOOOO! <u...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
> >group)
> >>On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:08:47 -0800, j w <j_w<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> sez the
> >>following funny stuff:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I was not a janitor. I was a jet aircraft mechanic.
> >> sure- gluing tiny models together, no doubt.............
> >
> >Your putdowns are SO juvenile!
> >
> >My military duty is VERY easy to document.
>
> Then what were the dates and where did you serve?
>
> "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
> when they do it from religious conviction."
> Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
From: John W <john_weatherl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.talk.creationism,alt.bible,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religio
n.christian-teen
Subject: Re: "Drafted" into the Air Force? "I was sent off to
war"? (as claimed by John W)
Message-ID: <2sh3kvkvvhqrpdf203vgsb89nl0gpt0...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>
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Date: 19 Aug 2003 06:42:39 GMT
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On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 09:18:04 -0400, "Scout Lady"
<pj2of...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>"John W" <john_weatherl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>news:b461kvkdohggi645m9fhuvpo66hibhjdp4@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 06:07:41 GMT, walksalone
>> <walksal...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:54:34 GMT, "Didymos" <m...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>"John W" <john_weatherl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> >>news:0mqojv4lhc6g4gi39aqit0mu501b9nkeil@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >>> On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:08:56 +1100, grandnatio...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(
>> >>> Phar-Lap) wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >In article <4rrdjv48tg5gn676s1s2lmavj5q1v15...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, John W
>> >>> ><john_weatherl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >>> >
<snip>
>> >>> >But you are not - and I suspect never have been - a Baptist. I
was
one
for
>> >>> >the first fifteen years or so of my life
>> >>>
>> >>> Get a clue, dude. I have said repeatedly that I was born and
raised in
>> >>> a S. Baptist home by a mother who was the daughter of a Southern
>> >>> Baptist pastor.
>> >>> The church I attended since birth was one of the three largest in
>> >>> Wa****ngton, D.C., Metropolitan Baptist Church, 6th and A St., SE.
Use
>> >>> your search engine and find it.
>> >>> I was a member of that church until I was drafted into the Viet
Nam
>> >>> war in the late 60s.
>> >>
>> >>You were drafted into the Air Force? Precisely what year "in the
late
60s"
>> >>did that event occur, Sir?
>> >>
>> >
>> >Try to get him to give you th first 2 digits of his serial number,
>> >there are places where you can find out if he was drafted with that
>> >information.
>> >
>> >SNIP
>> >
>> >walksalone who was on active duty when the transfer from seial
numbers
>> >to SSAN was done.
>>
>> My new one, given after the transition begins with 21
>> My old one, given BEFORE the transition, begins with AF
>>
>> John W
>>
>> In Christ,
>>
>John, why not just tell the truth?
I have told the truth. Always. When I have "typo ed", and
someone has
pointed it out, I have admitted it and changed it. When I've out
and
out mis-spoken, I have admitted that. I am not responsible for
"admitting my lies" when I don't lie, and you and others merely
don't
believe me.
Either you were drafted or you were not.
I was drafted, as were probably 3/4 of my graduating class, MOST
of
whom did not come home.
>Either you fought in Vietnam or you didn't.
I did NOT fight IN Vietnam. I never said I did.
I can't help the ASSUMPTIONS people make, and I've seen a lot of
people in here, including SL, add 2 + 2 and get 7, and then
blame me
for their assumptions and miscalculations.
>
>Just out of interest, what did you do in the military?
That's kinda personal, but you could probably look it up, so I
will
tell you, I was trained as an "Environmental Systems
Specialist/Technician". (one starts out as an Apprentice. When
he
reaches a level of proficiency where he can work without
assistance,
he becomes a Specialist. When he becomes proficient enough to
train
others, he becomes a Technician.) I never got past Apprentice. I
had
the skills in my head, bur for reasons I won't bore you /anyone
with,
I never qualified.
(I've forgotten all the duties, and I no longer have the
paperwork-all
that was stolen several years ago when EVERYTHING but one
computer was
stolen from me, as I've told before)
However, Environmental Systems include: Heating, Air
Conditioning,
Cabin Pressurization, Fire Extingui****ng, and one other that
escapes
me at the moment.
While I could repair our systems once they were in the shop with
NO
problem, and I was given the task of keeping the 10 manuals up
to
date, I was unable to transfer my knowledge to working IN the
airplanes.
John W
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.509 / Virus Database: 306 - Release Date: 08/12/03
>
From: John <john_weatherl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.military.uk
Subject: Re: Great photos
Message-ID: <epcnovkbmpgfmdk1nb00utcr6kucf57...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>
<bm70ou$n...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:19:58 +0000 (UTC), "m" <b...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
>what part of military.uk did you not understand!
>
>
>
>"pyp" <picp...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>news:ySyeb.174$mg.23@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Great photos of U.S. military systems at www.USvsEvil.com
>>
>>
>
>
>---
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>As checked by MARK
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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>
I'm a vet of the VietNam conflict. I was stationed at
Lakenheath,
Alconbury, Rhine Main, and Cigli briefly.
I'm looking for someone either at Lakenheath (preferred) or at
Alconbury to do me a couple of favors that will be one fun
Saturday
afternoon for you. And you MIGHT learn something. You'll need a
digital camera.
Thanks, and get back to me ASAP! I REALLY need this favor.
John Weatherly
AF1156xxxx
ret'd E-5
11/67
(the year Martin and Bobby were shot.)From: John W <john_weatherl...
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.talk.creationism,alt.bible,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religio
n.christian-teen,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
Subject: Re: A quote from John W.: " I served in the Viet Nam War." A
Lie. Again.
Message-ID: <blt8kv0fa177om9smkdks29mmoidpocfk5@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On 20 Aug 2003 16:57:37 -0700, heatherthomps...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Heather
Thompson) wrote:
>"Didymos" <m...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message news:<CbO0b.4415$B8.1019
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...
>> "John W" <john_weatherl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> news:v9d6kv4qe90putit7blip1tofq808jgtig@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:11:33 GMT, "Didymos" <m...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >"John W" <john_weatherl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> > >news:o6o4kvg4jkpmh9g80ubrviggtu7o3ci86e@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > >> On 19 Aug 2003 06:28:09 -0700, johnhenne...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(John
Hennekes)
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >Is your declaration in the paragraph above, " I served in the Viet
Nam
>> War.
>> > >In Europe, as NATO, Allied sup****t," a typographical error? Or
another
>> > >outrageous lie? What part of the Vietnam War was fought in the UK
and
>> > >Turkey? I know the VC and NVA attacked American bases in Thailand
and
>> Laos
>> > >with some regularity, but did they really get as far as Izmir AFS
and RAF
>> > >Lakenheath? The after action re****ts for those battles must be
seriously
>> > >classified, because no one but Mr John W. seems to know of them.
Wowee .
>> .
>> > >.
>> > >
>> > >No, Mr John W., you did not "serve in the Vietnam War." Just
another
>> > >sillyass lie. Why do you do this?
>> > >
>> > >You, Mr John W., served in the United States Air Force during the
Vietnam
>> > >War. You may have been assigned to an organization attached for
>> operational
>> > >purposes to NATO, but NATO didn't sup****t the American presence in
>> Vietnam
>> > >much. Nor did the wings at RAF Lakenheath, RAF Alconbury, or at
Izmir
>> > >sup****t the Vietnam War in any direct or significant way. Or are
you
>> > >geographically challenged? Vietnam is not in Europe. Are you
confusing
>> > >NATO and SEATO? Even if you are, you never served in any member
state of
>> > >SEATO except the good old USA.
>> > >
>> > >> And I honor most combat vets, except this jerk, who deserves NO
honor
>> > >> since he refuses to give other Christians and other military
veterans
>> > >> equal respect.
>> > >>
>> > >> I have NEVER claimed to be a combat veteran, nor do I claim to be
so
>> > >> now. ANyone who read into my remarks that I had served IN Viet
Nam,
>> > >> read that INTO my remarks.
>> > >>
>
>Heather writes:
>Didymos, I read this and it doesn't surprise me. Christians are some
>of the biggest liars on the Usenet. They are also some of the most
>stubborn, refusing to admit even minor mistakes but are so quick to
>point out the mistakes of others (see my Chris Devol II post).
You, like other (&&098's, ASSUME, ASSUME, ASSUME. I have told no lies.
John W
>
>I was never this deceitful as a Christian and I honestly don't
>remember Christians in my congregation being so deceitful UNTIL they
>were confronted with things that contradicted their precious spiritual
>beliefs. Then they became the quintessential bulldog, usually admired
>for his tenacity but in this case just plain stubborn. Good Luck with
>your debate. I was thinking of just writing "Good Luck!" then I
>realized the king quibbler would write a post to let me know that
>"Good Luck!" was improper english, even if it's informal.
>
>OVER AND OUT (no reason to read further)
>> > >> I cannot help your assumptions.
>> > >>
>> > >But you can control your lies. Can't you?
>> >
>> > I believe I've explained this sufficiently in another post. If you
>> > wish to nitpick one paragraph and ignore another, be my guest.
>> >
>> How do you define the word "in,"as when used in this sentence: "I
served in
>> the Viet Nam War"? You have reduced this to the same type of argument
as
>> Clinton did with his assinine reference to the definition of "is."
The
>> first definition of the English preposition "in" is "1. used to
indicate
>> inclusion within space, a place or limits" such as "walking in the
park" or
>> " I served in the Viet Nam War." No, you did not. You deliberately
>> prevaricated and obfuscated with intent to deceive. I think that
qualifies
>> as bearing false witness.
>>
>> Were RAF Alconbury and RAF Lakenheath really training locations for
Vietnam?
>> Weren't they NATO strike bases throughout the cold war? And since
these
>> bases contained certain priority resources they were not really
training
>> bases for anything, much less Vietnam. Strange, but the Air Force
claims
>> that all Air Training Command bases and Technical Training Centers
were in
>> CONUS. And the Tactical Fighter Weapons School was where? At a base
in the
>> UK? Not unless Arizona and Nevada became part of the UK. Did they,
Mr John
>> W.?
>>
>> Watching you wriggle after you have been caught in one of your blatant
>> falsehoods does have a certain entertainment value. You just keep
>> prevaricating, obfuscating, lying, and producing such clouds of
bull**** to
>> cover your original lie it is actually sort of breathtaking. Are you
sure
>> you didn't have a job in the communications office in the Nixon,
Reagan,
>> Clinton, or Bush White House(s)?
>>
>>
>> > John W
>> > >
>> > >> If you don't know, ask. Nicely.
>> > >>
>> > >> John H, for a "Christian", shame on you! You owe me more and
more
>> > >> apologies every day. And since I claim Christ as Lord and Savior,
that
>> > >> makes me a Christian whether YOU are or not.
>> > >>
>> > >> John W
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
______________________________________________________________________
>> > >> Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - FAST UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD -
>> http://www.uncensored-news.com
>> > >> <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source
>> <><><><><><><><>
>> > >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
______________________________________________________________________
>> > Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - FAST UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD -
>> http://www.uncensored-news.com
>> > <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source
>> <><><><><><><><>
>> >
______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - FAST UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD -
http://www.uncensored-news.com
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<>
From: walksal...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
alt.religion.christian.methodist,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.relig
ion.christian.pentecostal,alt.religion.christian.adventist
Subject: Re: Masturbation: A Christian Perspective --- Rowland needs to
actually come clean on this issue.
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 03:14:26 -0500
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Reply-To: s...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
individual.net
HMAK3n5Hof5BLBFaxqipGgFW+P/pdIVUri7UzR+SWWzojHiJ/d
In <qu4ha1dgaapqeodbocqj4b8sg48febj...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, on 06/09/05
at 12:10 PM, jw <jw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> in failing to keep track of his lies,
failed to recall that he has posted about his list of the honorable
military service more than once.
From: jw <jw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.christian.methodist,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.relig
ion.christian.pentecostal,alt.religion.christian.adventist
Subject: Re: Masturbation: A Christian Perspective --- Rowland needs to
actually come clean on this issue.
Message-ID: <qu4ha1dgaapqeodbocqj4b8sg48febje36@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>x-no-archive: yes
>On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 18:53:31 -0400, "Doc: The
>absent-minded-professor!" <D...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> copyright 2005 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
>>On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 02:59:56 -0700, jw <jw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> done went and
>>wrote as Gospel Truth in these here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
>>
>>>
>>>Ah! Thank you! When I was in the "forces" in England (during Viet
>>>Nam), the Brits called themselves "Blokes"
>>
>>
>>The Brits ALWAYS CALLED THEMSELVE BLOKES. It was merely a slang term.
>>
>>As for your 'military career' ------- BWAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!
>I'm truly surprised, oh, demented Darth, that with all your snooping in
>all the world's gutters, you have not yet found evidence of my military
>service.
You mean like the following?
********************************************************************
From: John W <john_weatherl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.talk.creationism,alt.bible,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religio
n.christian-teen
Subject: Re: "Drafted" into the Air Force? "I was sent off to
war"? (as claimed by John W)
Message-ID: <2sh3kvkvvhqrpdf203vgsb89nl0gpt0...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Date: 19 Aug 2003 06:42:39 GMT
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On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 09:18:04 -0400, "Scout Lady"
<pj2of...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>"John W |
