(demons would try to re-direct you AWAY from spiritual answers, would
they not?)
"nuff said".
john w
And-- "BREE"-- there is a VERY HOT place being prepared for you as I
type this!
;-)
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: salvation for the mentally handicapped
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 06:37:17 -0700
Message-ID: <71pjd2dlq7km7a84db26pndd5g96sdlcns@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 02:40:32 GMT, "Mike" <mikeleeisback@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>"Bree" <Shasta@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>news:Shasta-0808061228390001@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> In article <9isdd2d472v5a12e92t2kfgiqt88jr06g8@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, john w
>> <johnw<nospam>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> >I think perhaps it would be better if you acknowledged what you
tacitly
>>> >seem to admit, that you are seeking answers in the wrong place.
>>>
>>> I BELIEVE, Phar Lap, that YOU are in the wrong place.
>>>
>>> And-- I believe that Mike was asking for a Christian reply!
>>>
>>> >
>>> >This is NOT a religious matter but a medical and social one in which
you
>>> >will have to learn to cope with what may be quite a difficult
burden.
>>> >How
>>> >you choose to cope is rather up to you but it is in the area of
medicine
>>> >that you most need counselling and social sup****t
>>>
>>> Why don't you shut the f* up and go find some traffic to play in?
>>
>> Weatherly - I think the original poster will be readily able to
measure
>> the extent of your Christianity from your own words. To me there is
not a
>> single shred of Christianity in you. To me you are quite disgusting
and
>> violent - a gun loving madman who pretends to be a lover of Jesus of
>> Nazareth - that is all. You are Judas Iscariot incarnate!
>>
>> John you are someone who needs medical attention yourself and not
someone
>> who should be giving advice or ranting in a thread where the poster
has
>> bravely expressed genuine concern
>>
>> I treated the poster with respect and I suggest you do the same.
>>
>> It was a very difficult path that brought me to my present position.
I
>> have had experiences that I can share and from which any poster may
select
>> or reject according to need. In them my original Baptist Christianity
was
>> forced to be transformed into a richer and more intense and searching
>> understanding of the world.
>>
>> Nothing emotionally affects a persons understanding more than the
special
>> needs of their own special child. But all growth can be painful as
the
>> old standards fail and new ones are needed
>>
>> There are many who will be able to spend their lives in the courtyards
of
>> religion, others need to penetrate deeper to the Holy of Holies and
beyond
>> - to see their childhood religion in a larger context that includes
both
>> science and religion. that recognises the roles of psychology,
philosophy
>> and myth
>>
>> I don't know John if you are even capable of understanding what I am
>> trying to say to you - I suspect however not. Yours are the tantrums
of a
>> damaged child - we can watch them and we can watch you suffer but
>> communicating with you is like trying to reach through a glass wall
that
>> is part of your unfortunate makeup. We can see you and watch you,
even
>> feel sorry for you
>>
>> But ultimately we cannot help because part of your damage is to have
had
>> taken away the will to be well.
>>
>>
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>I post for help, for genuine guidance, and this is what I get: supposed
>experts bickering and posturing over each other.
You are not getting "bickering", Mike!
I (John Weatherly) am a Christian, and I make no claims otherwise.
If you ARE familiar with the demonic, you might want to take a 2nd
look at "Bree" / "Shasta".
He hasn't contributed ANYTHING scriptural or spiritual.
And as I try to offer you scriptural/spiritual advice and insight,
"Bree" simply attacks my credibility morally and spiritually.
I suggest you look a little deeper.
(And, frankly, if you are going to be that easily led astray by the
noisy nay-sayers (Bree and others), you're in for a difficult time in
here.)
I have posted a LONG response (scriptural) to your reasonable
questions.
I suggest you park your judgment of me and that you park "Bree",
PERIOD, until you've read what I wrote you.
God bless!
john w
>
>Anyone else have any thoughts that are on topic?
>
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: salvation for the mentally handicapped
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 06:32:26 -0700
Message-ID: <rtojd2t10s6n54g7ek2nbr4qh9gjsnrqec@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 10:59:03 +1000, Shasta@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Bree)
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>In article <1aTBg.973$Sn3.769@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, "Mike"
><mikeleeisback@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for at the least cutting through the childishness.
>>
>> As far as my spouse, I am a single father, and my 2 boys live with me.
>> Their Mom is involved, but I am the custodial parent.
>>
>> I have already had even Sunday School teachers say that I am just
raising my
>> child incorrectly, and that is why he misbehaves or cannot speak. I
no
>> longer go to that church, but my heart was broken; I loved that church
>> before they shunned my family. They just didn't know how to accept us
as my
>> son grew older and developed the way he did. I have found another
church
>> that has accepted both my boys with open arms, btw.
>>
>> That being said, I do believe in demons. In this case, however, I do
not
>> believe my son is possessed. To that extent, I agree with you that
>> sometimes things like this just happen because we live in an imperfect
>> world. Frankly, I *dare* anyone to come up to me and tell me my son
is
>> possessed, or that I am failing him as his father. If there's one
thing
>> I've learned through this, it's that God expects us to fight for and
>> establish a safe haven for our children, regardless of how the world
>> receives them.
>>
>> But my question for the time being is spiritual, and I will rephrase
my
>> original question: what scripture verses can *anyone* offer concerning
>> salvation for those who are unable to choose?
>>
>> Sincerely, and in Christ,
>> Mike
>>
>>
>
>Your concern is understandable
>
>The concept of salvation has been held over Christians like the sword of
>Damocles. But it is an antique view belonging to the concept of
Have you noticed yet, Phar Lap, that Mike is wisely IGNORING you?
He has already figured out..
"YOU DON"T CONTRIBUTE!"
;-)
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: salvation for the mentally handicapped
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 06:31:07 -0700
Message-ID: <5gnjd21tgl4rhk4lo0klmca0vjukai9v5g@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 03:03:25 GMT, "Mike" <mikeleeisback@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>Thank you for at the least cutting through the childishness.
>
>As far as my spouse, I am a single father, and my 2 boys live with me.
>Their Mom is involved, but I am the custodial parent.
>
>I have already had even Sunday School teachers say that I am just
raising my
>child incorrectly, and that is why he misbehaves or cannot speak. I no
>longer go to that church, but my heart was broken; I loved that church
>before they shunned my family. They just didn't know how to accept us
as my
>son grew older and developed the way he did. I have found another
church
>that has accepted both my boys with open arms, btw.
>
>That being said, I do believe in demons. In this case, however, I do
not
>believe my son is possessed. To that extent, I agree with you that
>sometimes things like this just happen because we live in an imperfect
>world. Frankly, I *dare* anyone to come up to me and tell me my son is
>possessed, or that I am failing him as his father. If there's one thing
>I've learned through this, it's that God expects us to fight for and
>establish a safe haven for our children, regardless of how the world
>receives them.
>
>But my question for the time being is spiritual, and I will rephrase my
>original question: what scripture verses can *anyone* offer concerning
>salvation for those who are unable to choose?
If you look up the story about David stealing another mans' wife, then
having a child with her, God killed the infant for punishment. He also
told David (if you understand the concepts) that his son would be
waiting for King David in heaven.
An answer I typed earlier:
#1 I don't mean to "one-up" anyone, but I DO believe in "authority"
and in respecting it. I believe that when our elders in the faith go
to the trouble to get an education, and we see half a dozen Ph Ds, Th
Ds, M Divs, LL Ds, D Mins, etc, after the man's name, and a "Dr" in
front of it, we need to "listen up".
These men are scholars, they've spent their entire adult lives
studying the Bible, they've visited the "holy places", and they "know
their stuff." That to say this. In my 60 years, I have never attended
/ joined a church that didn't have a Dr ____ as the senior pastor. My
pastors the last 60 years have been the gentlemen who have translated
the Bibles we use.
#2 I have not known one single authority/ scholar who would tell you
that your child is CAPABLE of "making a DECISION to accept Christ as
Savior" or live their life with Christ as their Lord, if he/ she is
autistic.
We are NOT responsible in this life for stuff we never knew about.
And if you are not capable of discussing your child's eternal destiny
because your child is not capable of understanding, the God I believe
in and follow would not punish such a child.
God punishes the wicked, those who REJECT His love.
And the god you are talking about, the god who would condemn a child
who is incapable of understanding-- the god of the "Calvinist" and
other legalistic denominations --is not a god I could love, respect,
or wor****p.
#3 I happen to be one who is mentally ill. Recently (within the past
20 years or so), my illness has come to be called "technically",
"bi-polar disorder." I also have a disorder known as "personality
disorder." The bi-polar used to be called "manic-depressive" disorder.
It basically means I have "hi s and lows." There is a lot more to it
than that, but it basically means I can't work in the traditional
sense. On the other hand, I am VERY artistic (that means I CAN and DO
contribute).
Yes-- I may have mental issues, but I am not "a retard." I have a
mind. A good mind for ART.
[[ At any rate, now that I have bored you with a life history, to your
question. ]]
You asked for scripture. That is not a problem. This was not discussed
EXHAUSTIVELY in the Bible (the Jews knew God is a loving God).
But it came up.
You'll find it in...2 Samuel 11.
If you recall the incident where King David was at war. While his army
was out in the field fighting, David went up on his balcony one
evening, looked around, and saw a beautiful woman undress (she got
****d) and get into her bathtub. He watched her, "burned with lust",
and sent his servant to bring her to his house/palace, where the King
took her to his bed. She got pregnant, and so he eventually sent her
husband into the HEAT of the battle and he was killed.
In exchange for David's sin of adultery and murder, God killed the
newborn boy. Now that I have given you GIST, you can look it up.
All that to say this. King David (under Divine Inspiration) makes this
comment. He has been crying and mourning for a week since his son was
born and fell ill. He has refused food, and has refused even to bathe.
He has spent the entire week (if I recall) mourning.
After 7 days of life, God snuffs out the infant's life. The servant
comes and tells the King that his new son has been taken. David gets
up, takes a bath, calls for fresh clothes, eats a meal, and gets back
to "the King's business." Someone comments, "King! What's going on?
Why are you so calm now? Why are you going back to business as usual?
You mourned and refused to eat or even to take a bath for a week? What
has changed? You have bathed, you have eaten, and now you're at your
desk, inputting invoices into your laptop ( ;-)
( allow some license here; I am also a writer )
The servant asks, "Why are you suddenly so cheerful? "
King David's reply here is CRITICAL, and it's PRECISELY what you are
looking for, on TWO levels (you asked 2 questions, and I am going to
answer BOTH)
David says,
"Why should I continue to mourn? I have done what I was supposed to
do! While my son was alive, I prostrated myself. I covered myself with
ashes (symbolic Jewish custom to VISUALLY indicate a period of
mourning). I tore my clothes! I refused to eat! I've been praying for
7 friggin' days, BEGGING God to spare my son's life!
God said,
"No!"
God said, "You sinned! You committed adultery! (couldn't keep your
bleedin' hands off someone else's wife!) You then got her knocked up!
Then you murdered her husband! "
David says, "Yes, I did all that."
God says, " So I have killed your newborn son , the "fruit of your
sin" !"
David tells the servant, (this is the CRITICAL part)
" I did all I could do to make up for my sins (adultery, murder)
God still killed my son. But He has assured me. Nothing I can do will
bring my son back. But, when I die, I will go to see my baby son!"
(in Heaven)
You'll find it in...2 Samuel 11.
Now, here's the thing, Mike.
There are those who are suffering the ILLUSION that NO ONE before
Steven (in the New Testament, the "first Christian martyr") went to
heaven.
NO one (supposedly) who died BEFORE Jesus died went to heaven. THAT
view means that every single soul in the Old Testament (David,
Solomon, ALL the prophets)
they're all in hell, for "being born too soon." (born before Messiah
was born/born before He died)
I don't believe that !! You shouldn't either!
That would mean that, if you flip through the Old Testament and you
note the NAMES on the books (you see the AUTHORS we know about),
ALL those Patriarchs (who wrote the Old Testament; be they prophet,
be they Kings,
They ARE IN HELL! (no way.)
Therefore, we KNOW that King David and his son, Solomon, are in
HEAVEN.
Right?
Well, if David is in Heaven (and I have PROOF OF THAT in the New
Testament), then if David is in Heaven, and the Holy Spirit told David
"you're going to see your baby son again", David's baby son is also in
heaven.
That infant was too little to "believe in Jesus." (Jesus wasn't even
around then)
Your son [ likely ] doesn't have the mental capacity to believe in
Jesus, either. (as far as you / we know)
Hell is the PUNISHMENT for HEARING THE GOSPEL and REJECTING it!
Hell IS NOT for FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NEVER HEARD!!
("how can anyone saved who REJECTS so great a salvation..." ?)
Lk 10:16 "He who listens to you listens to me; he who REJECTS you
REJECTS me; but he who REJECTS me REJECTS Him who sent me!"
36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects
the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever
REJECTS the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
---
Now, we turn to the New Testament. Look up the incident known as "The
Mt of Transfiguration. It's a MAJOR incident that tells us MUCH about
Christianity, and about "Old Testament Christians." (those who
believed in Jesus before He was ever born)
Mt 17
Jesus took with Him up on the mountain, Peter, James, and John.
Jesus left the apostles and walked a bit further, and suddenly, from
nowhere, appeared Moses and Elijah. They were lit up as bright as the
sun. Before the eyes of the apostles, Jesus took on the same
appearance as the prophets.
We don't know what was said, but the apostles were in obvious awe.
Now, I ask you, if the Mt of Transfiguration events took place halfway
through Matthew (27 chapters), WELL before (months, if not YEARS), how
did Moses and Elijah look JUST like the glorified Jesus looked if they
had not ALREADY gone to heaven (they went when they died) ??
The key here, Mike is, that the prophets had gone to heaven, and we
know that because the Holy Spirit told Matthew to record that the
LONG-dead prophets looked JUST LIKE Jesus looked! (they came from the
same place Jesus had come from)
So, anyone who tells you that the ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN is "to believe in
Jesus as your Savior" doesn't think about the Patriarchs who went to
heaven before Jesus was ever born!
The prophets went to heaven because THEY WERE FAITHFUL to WHAT THEY
KNEW ABOUT. They went to heaven because they were LOOKING FORWARD to
the coming of the Messiah.
As for those who have never heard the gospel, have never heard of
Jesus, and have never heard of the Christian God, "Yhwh" ("Yahweh" or
"Jehovah"), I heard a pastor/evangelist, Dr Angel Martinez, explain it
this way. We have to trust God that He knows men's hearts. If that
Aborigine never heard the word "God" in his whole life, and he dies,
GOD KNOWS what that Aborigine WOULD have done if he HAD heard! And if
God KNOWS that that Aborigine would have believed, God honors the
INTENT of the HEART.
I hope that answers your questions.
Sorry my reply was so long, but some things take more words than
others.
And should you have more questions, kindly ask.
john w
>Sincerely, and in Christ,
>Mike
>
>"Bree" <Shasta@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>news:Shasta-0808061252260001@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>> To the original poster
>>
>> I am sorry that you have been dragged into this insanity. I do not
>> consider this is an appropriate thread to deal with the extent of
>> Weatherlys insanity and lies. I deal with them in other threads
>>
>> I am afraid that your future path will often involve having to come to
>> terms with this kind of nonsense. There will be those who will even
seek
>> to judge you and yours in religious terms rather than help you in the
>> medical and social sense
>>
>> I have worked with sup****t societies that deal with illness - Somehow
>> illness seems to attract many forms of religious perversion with the
>> perverted seeking to prey on the vulnerable. My experience is that
you
>> need to take your spiritual understanding one step beyond all this.
>>
>> You will be subject to the tirades of those who can never understand
what
>> you have experienced and are experiencing. Sometimes they will abuse
you
>> for the manner in which you comprehend and handle day to day problems.
>>
>> Put the love of your child and your family first and you will never be
>> short of genuine and powerful sup****t
>>
>> As to demons - there aren't any.
>>
>> There will be those that seek to "deliver" you and your spouse and
your
>> child. It is a cruel and unchristian occultist fantasy that seeks to
>> blame the victims spirituality - to claim "demonic possession" as the
>> source of genuine illness. It is not and you do not have the luxury
to
>> even believe it to be so if you are to best help your child
>>
>> These people are deluded and filled in many cases with hatred - they
have
>> done and continue to do the world much damage.
>>
>> We live in an imperfect world
>>
>>
>>
>> ++++++++++++
>>
>>
>> In article <nfffd21p762p27lam3oiij3l7tidh30ir0@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, john w
>> <johnw<nospam>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>>> x-no-archive: yes
>>> On 7 Aug 2006 13:54:16 -0700, "christianbeauty"
>>> <southernbelle729@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>> copyright 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of
>>> this article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of
>>> the author
>>> >yea john good way to show a Christian example
>>> >> Why don't you shut the f* up and go find some traffic to play in?
>>> >nice way to handle that one pal!
>>>
>>> I suggest, Christianbeauty, that you deal with people in YOUR way,
and
>>> allow me to deal with people in MY way.
>>>
>>> You may not be aware of it, but "Shasta"/ (Bree) (Phar Lap) is
someone
>>> I SUSPECT of being a demon, and he and I have been going at this for
>>> some 6 YEARS now.
>>>
>>> I don't believe that he is susceptible to "God's love" because he's
>>> not human.
>>>
>>> I have told him REPEATEDLY that when he stops ACTING like a demon,
>>> I'll be happy to stop TREATING him like one!
>>>
>>> And if you look at the half-dozen or so RECORDED instances where
Jesus
>>> came face-to-face with demons, He was not gentle or polite.
>>>
>>> (perhaps you might reconsider jumping in and accusing people BEFORE
>>> you check out what is actually happening)
>>>
>>> In THIS case, Phar Lap (Shasta) has been in the baptist group for 6
>>> YEARS now, harassing all things / people Christian!
>>>
>>> He HATES us fundamentalists, and wishes to cleanse the earth and the
>>> church of us!
>>>
>>> God bless!
>>>
>>> john w
>>> >john w wrote:
>>> >> x-no-archive: yes
>>> >> On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 14:36:18 +1000, Shasta@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Bree)
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> >In article <qarBg.5329$0e5.3556
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
>>> >> >"Mike"
>>> >> ><mikeleeisback@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> I posted this more or less in another newsgroup, and I'd like
to
>> hear what
>>> >> >> the denomination of my youth has to say about this...
>>> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> >> >> Okay, my son was just diagnosed with autism and sever mental
>> retardation (IQ
>>> >> >> between 30-35, according to the doctors). I am a believer, and
>> have been
>>> >> >> since I was 11.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Can anyone offer me some biblical guidance in salvation for the
>>> >> >> mentally
>>> >> >> handicapped? I've heard both sides (i.e., they're
automatically
>> saved, of
>>> >> >> "safe", to they're going to Hell if they can't/don't believe in
>> Christ), but
>>> >> >> no one has been able to offer me any biblical evidence thus far
to
>>> >> >> prove
>>> >> >> their point, at least none that sup****ts their arguments to my
>> satisfaction.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I also suppose that this goes hand-in-hand with the question
"what
>>> >> >> about
>>> >> >> those who have never heard". Considering I feel God's call to
be a
>>> >> >> missionary as well, I really would like this one answered.
>> Frankly, though,
>>> >> >> it is secondary to my concern for my son at this point. Can
>> anyone offer
>>> >> >> any true biblical guidance on this?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Sincerely,
>>> >> >> Mike
>>> >> >
>>> >> >I think perhaps it would be better if you acknowledged what you
>>> >> >tacitly
>>> >> >seem to admit, that you are seeking answers in the wrong place.
>>> >>
>>> >> I BELIEVE, Phar Lap, that YOU are in the wrong place.
>>> >>
>>> >> And-- I believe that Mike was asking for a Christian reply!
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >This is NOT a religious matter but a medical and social one in
which
>>> >> >you
>>> >> >will have to learn to cope with what may be quite a difficult
burden.
>>> >> >How
>>> >> >you choose to cope is rather up to you but it is in the area of
>>> >> >medicine
>>> >> >that you most need counselling and social sup****t
>>> >>
>>> >> Why don't you shut the f* up and go find some traffic to play in?
>
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: Angry with People
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 06:02:55 -0700
Message-ID: <15njd2tm2og1d56c23fg1i6t0j5ctpg8bg@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 22:07:25 -0500, CB <country2000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:04:26 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>x-no-archive: yes
>>On 8 Aug 2006 13:34:23 -0700, "christianbeauty"
>><southernbelle729@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>>article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>>author
>>>13 and forest green
>>
>>When you, CB, get to the place where what others think truly does not
>>matter-- where only what JESUS thinks matters--
>
>You talkin' to me?
Did it sound like I was talking to you?
I shortened "Christianbeauty" to "CB."
So now, there are two of you.
And you can tell which is which since I RARELY address you, and even
MORE rarely would I say nice things.
>>
>>but, you may WELL already be there!
>>
>>Which is why I said-- and reaffirm-- you seem wise beyond your years!
>>
>>It took me into my 40s to "find my place." And when I discovered the
>>REAL artistic talent within (my writing, my photography, etc), I found
>>my place in the world.
>>
>>What artists look to do is to "make their mark" by changing the world
>>in some small way. And-- looking back-- I have done that.
>>
>>Funny how so many in here mock my "individuality", but how many have
>>also incor****ated some of my "one-liners."
>>
>>God bless!
>>
>>You make me wish I was 18 again!
>>
>>( And I don't mean that in a "you-me" way. I mean that in a "you
>>remind me when I was your age!" ) In some ways, I would LOVE to go
>>back and do it all over again.
snipped for posting
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: Angry with People
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 06:00:26 -0700
Message-ID: <p1njd2t910afsmri3manp3cb7437rbpom4@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 06:23:54 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
<mams@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>"john w @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>" <johnw<no> wrote in message...
>
>> "How can 10,000 of your neighbors all be wrong?"
>
>
>If you MUST talk about Bill Clinton,
>
>I'd rather have a president that screws an intern than one who screws
the entire nation.
"Catchy comeback!"
:-)
May I use it?
For my perspective, Clinton did both, and continues to do both!
;-)
>
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: Angry with People
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 05:59:20 -0700
Message-ID: <0umjd29ce7nla3rrie43rc5kdi4mpkhi5j@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 22:04:43 -0500, CB <country2000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>On 8 Aug 2006 13:28:50 -0700, "christianbeauty" <southernbelle729
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>wrote:
>
>>and im shocked that you think that little of both john and myself...
>
>Evidently you don't know jw.
Perhaps, unlike you, she forgives. Perhaps, unlike you, she doesn't
false accuse and make all sorts of false assumptions.
>FWIW, I'm on your side.
chuckle. You are on one person's side. You are on CB's side!
You hope she "sees through" me. I suspect she's already seen through
YOU!"
;-)
I have my doubts that a person of her maturity is going to find funny
someone (you) for whom EVERYTHING's a sick joke!
>
>
>>CB wrote:
>>> On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 09:11:28 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >"john w @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
>>> >news:c0nfd2t5oj4gt1pom2qljp8lkgp2al3frf@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> >> On 7 Aug 2006 15:55:17 -0700, "christianbeauty"
>>> >> <southernbelle729@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>> >>>thank you again john...i think thats 2 against "al queda"
dave...sorry
>>> >>>"dear" and yes i am quite fiesty arent i?..lol
>>> >>
>>> >> ;-)
>>> >
>>> >I'm shocked that you haven't torn her a new one over her writing
style.
>>>
>>> I'm shocked he hasn't mentioned *** to her yet.
>
>
>
>
>Acts 26:8 "Why is it considered incredible among you
>people if God does raise the dead?
>
>
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: Angry with People
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 05:57:07 -0700
Message-ID: <9qmjd2dah7ma6gc1ukf9kg6l64oqvsfcrl@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 05:06:18 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
<mams@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>"john w @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>" <johnw<no> wrote in message...
>
>> The man not only had no morals, but left semen stains on the carpet in
>> the Oval Office!
>
>
>You talk about some funny things John.
>
I think there are some vital things to recall that some would as soon
we all forget.
I got this stuff from an EXCELLENT book by a member of Clinton's own
cabinet, one William Bennett, who simply could not stomach the abuses
of office by WJC and Hillary anymore.
It's a good read, it's called "The Death of Outrage." and you prove
the title!
;-)
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.presbyterian,alt.re
ligion.christian.lutheran,alt.religion.christian.roman-
catholic,alt.religion.christianity,alt.religion.christian.methodist
Subject: Re: Cease Fire
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 05:52:44 -0700
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>
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On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 05:16:41 GMT, "Daniel S. Vieira"
<email-in-sig@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w <johnw wrote:
>
> > By planning ahead, when we need a strike force of say 10,000 fully
>> armed forces with equipment in Atlanta, Georgia, we don't have to wait
>> until they can be ****pped in from Las Vegas, Nevada.
>
>A "strike force" in Atlanta to do...what, exactly?
I was giving the LOSEST of examples.
Shoot Americans?
>There is something called the "National Guard" that is deployed when
>domestic emergencies happen, and they are to be under local law
>enforcement agencies.
I am fully aware of that. I served with National Guard when I went
through boot camp and advanced training as a jet aircraft mechanic.
>
>What in the world are you talking about?
What in the WORLD am I talking about?
hehehe.
Let's see, which state was it where the GOVERNOR, one George Wallace,
had the National Guard at his disposal, but REFUSED to obey a LAWFUL
U S Supreme Court order? To integrate?
When the GOVERNOR breaks the law (I guess that's before YOUR time;
it's not before MY time)
Then the President must send in FEDERAL troops (US Army, Airborne
Rangers) to enforce FEDERAL LAWs (a U S Supreme Court decision
ordering integration would be one example)
THAT, or the President is FULLY authorized to take command of the
Guard! All he has to do is send in a FEDERAL (US Army) commander who
OUTRANKS the local commander. IF the Guard commander is an LC, the
President can send in a "Bird Col" to relieve him.
See how that works?
I knew you would!
While YOu are preaching "crackpot theory", I've LIVED it, pal!
>
>> IF we have an emergency in Tokyo, and our nearest friendlies are in
>> Tampa, Florida, "we're screwed."
>
>Why would "we" have an emergency in Tokyo?
Do you understand (obviously, you do not) EXAMPLES?
Why, then, didn't we send the Marines when we had that tsunami a
couple of years back ? (we did send the Marines)
Why on EARTH didn't we send US Marines and the Airborne to LEBANON to
rescue some 20,000 US CITIZENS stranded in Lebanon when war broke out
a couple of weeks ago?
(we did send the Marines and the Airborne)
Were you sleeping?
Or just suffering HUA disorder?
In fact, when the Marines got to Lebanon a couple of weeks ago, and
they began evacuating THOUSANDS of Americans and foreign nationals
( you mean we rescued NON-Americans??? OhMYGod!!)
One Marine commander was INTERVIEWED (fancy THAT!) by the media. He
was asked how he felt to have COMBAT troops in NON-combat roles?
He said, 'we train for both, and I believe I can speak for my team
when I say, we'd MUCH rather be RESCUING people than SHOOTING at
them!"
If there is a tsumani in
>Tokyo, it's the repsonbility of the Japanese government to deal with
>clean up,
Yep! And one thing the Japanese and many other nations do is,"Be sure
that emergency first call you make for help is to the White House!"
not America's (although, I would imagine that millions in
>private charity would pour out of the United States again like when the
>tsuamis hit Indonesia.)
You truly don't know what time of day it is!
>
>> And whether the President is a Right-wing conservative or a Left-wing
>> Democrat, MOST of those troops on foreign soil will stay right where
>> they are!
>
>Yes, working to protect foreign governments that hate us but wait to get
>the next check from Uncle Sam, and scream when it's late.
smirk. "Right!"
They may hate us, I will grant you THAT! (having lived/ been
stationed in SEVERAL foreign countries, I know that personally.
When I was in England during Vietnam, I found out first hand that the
Brit on the street DESPISED Americans! (and me). When I was in Turkey
TDY, (where I saw the church), the Turks DESPISES Americans.
HOWEVER, you forgot one detail! They MUST cooperate with us at some
VITAL levels (for both countries) if they want all those $$$ US to
keep flowing!!
;-)
We certainly do tolerate the "mutual hate" so long as we are able to
maintain our bases (and listening posts), and have 30,000 Marines and
20,000 Airborne stationed there, "striking distance" from wherever
they may be needed.
Don't you understand that probably 6 MONTHS before we "officially
invaded" Afghanistan OR Kuwait, we had sent in "Advance Teams"
stationed in friendly countries to "prep the landing zone." ??
>
>Our borders and homeland need to be protected, not a bunch of screaming
>deadbeats in Hammababbastan or wherever else we send our tax dollars.
"Right!" And of course, FAR better to station our forces 500 miles
from our coats than to station them SECRETLY IN the enemy camp.
You simply don't get national defense.
And the "Pre-emptive strike" on Iraq and on Afghanistan rewrote the
books on warfare!
;-)
And the President proved a vital point. His POWER as President
INCLUDES sending forces WHEREVER he believes they are needed, WITHOUT
advance permission. They may stay in the drop zone for like 90 days
BEFORE Congress authorizes it!
That, sir, includes the power to launch a "Pre-emptive strike."
That is, if I suspect you're about to punch me in the nose, I have
EVERY right to hit you FIRST!
I watch court TV sometimes. I heard a case about two guys who got into
a brawling argument outside a bar. The one guy got tired of arguing
and the threats of bodily harm from the drunk, and he decked the guy.
All the witnesses had to say was "this drunk threatened the guy about
5 times, and the guy got tired of being threatened, was afraid of
being hurt, and hauled off and knocked the drunk on his keester!"
The judge said, "if you threatened this guy (he did), he had EVERY
right to punch your lights out!"
George W Bush felt THREATENED, and he struck FIRST!
;-)
>
>Dan
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>
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Subject: Re: Cease Fire
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 05:32:45 -0700
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On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 05:21:35 GMT, "Daniel S. Vieira"
<email-in-sig@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>Michael wrote:
>
>> When did the US military get the authorizaton to do rescue work from
the
>> Constitution? It is a nice thing to do, but it is not the
responsibility
>> of the US military to rescue folks from natural disasters.
>
>Actually, the US Military has no authorization to do anything
>domestically at all. In theory (although not in practice), military
>units *on military bases* are not supposed to even carry weapons around
>less they are acting solely as security agents for the base. Even when
>the National Guard is deployed, they are to work under local law
>enforcement agencies or with the feds as necessary, not doing anything
>themselves.
>
An EXCELLENT point!
And should you or anyone else be confused, it's not the "US Army" who
lead the way when we need to forcibly integrate schools in Little Rock
(happened in my lifetime, and I watched it live on TV)
The US NATIONAL Guard was used! And I know about the Guard because
when I was in my boot camp and my advanced technical training (jet
aircraft mechanic), I trained with a dozen "Guard". Some of us
"regulars" looked down on them, but the drill instructors made it VERY
clear that we needed a "civilian militia" as well as soldiers. The
National Guard are intended to be the "trained civilian militia" under
STATE authority (NOT FEDERAL)
Sadly, when I made an allegorical point (the Guard IS-- in FACT -- the
US Army, but they are under STATE control, NOT federal) of "sending
the Marines to Alabama (or wherever)
someone took the liberty and op****tunity to make a cheap shot RATHER
than ask for clarification.
I certainly didn't meant to be taken LITERALLY.
ON THE OTHER hand
>I don't know what planet John W is from, but maybe one of the stones on
>"one of the churches Paul built" fell on his head and did a lot more
>damage than he realizes.
"The church IS there!"
ON THE OTHER HAND, if Governor _____ of Nevada has a MAJOR emergency
on his hands, and he realizes that 5,000 fully armed NAtional Guard
(those at his command) are not adequate, he is totally free AND
authorized to call the White House and ask the President for 'Federal
Troops". Which is what happened (as I recall) at Waco.
The governor called for "Federal Troops", and some 1,000 Regular Army
showed up. (IIRC)
IIRC it also happened when we integreated the high school / and
college in the South in the 50s.
There's an old saying with us veterans, "When the RAs (Regular Army)
shows up, you know the s* has -- indeed-- hit the fan!
There may only be 5,000 National Guard available,
but when another 5,000 Airborne Rangers drop from the sky,
and another 20,000 Marines drive up in Abrams tanks,
"I'd SURRENDER!"
>
>Dan
And thanks for the kind words, Dan! I LOVE it when you folk who
haven't been to Izmir, Turkey or to Little Stukeley, England
tell me (or others) what's there and what's not there!
Boy, fella, are YOU going to be embarrassed!
;-)
But-- don't worry! I don't expect you to ever apologize!
You don't have that much character!
:-)
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.christian.methodist,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.relig
ion.christian.pentecostal,alt.religion.christian.adventist
Subject: Re: The Middle East: Some Dangerous Ideas
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 04:51:01 -0700
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On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 20:18:51 +1000, "* irenic *" <see_it@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>1. 'The Israelis can do no wrong', (and given the 20th century's Nazi
>holocaust and the 21st century's Iran's et al's threats of another
holocaust
>you can't blame them for over-reacting to real or imagined threats to
their
>survival...)
>
>2. 'The rage of Hezbollah/Hamas/Arabs in general is justified' (because
of
>the contempt with which Jews in general and the Israeli military machine
in
>particular have treated these people)
>
>3. 'Conservative Muslim and Christian eschatology says
judgment/Armageddon
>is around the corner'. (Scholar William Wagner, a professor at Golden
Gate
>Baptist Theological Seminary, says, "Both Islam and Christianity have a
very
>well-defined eschatology, or period of the last days. Both of them
cannot be
>correct.") A majority of Muslims believe the "12th Iman" or Mahdi, an
>Islamic messianic figure, was placed in hiding until the day of
judgment.
>There is much dissent among Muslim factions as to who this savior figure
>will be and where and when he will return. Some factions even believe
this
>Mahdi may be Jesus. However, almost all Muslims agree that in order for
this
>day to arrive, Israel must be destroyed. Fundamentalist Christians
believe
>that the Last Great Battle is the precursor to Christ establi****ng his
reign
>on earth: they, too, disagree on the details...
>
Christians differ on the "fine details" of Armageddon and The Great
Tribulation
simply because what too many Christians raised in "tradition" rather
than SOUND scholar****p don't understand that the Bible provides a
BRIEF overview/outline of the "End of Times'. It does NOT present a
"blow-by-blow."
One of the GREAT arguments / debates over New Testament Christianity
is PROPHESY, whether it's there, and 100 different views on what it
means if it IS there.
MUCH (if not all) prophesy only becomes CLEAR in its meaning AFTER the
fact. Too many think, "well you can't just play the game that "oh,
that meaningless passage is SUDDENLY a "prophesy" when dadada happens!
If it didn't mean anything BEFORE dadada, it doesn't mean anything
AFTER dadada!
Not so. Let me give you an example. According to Christian belief,
Jesus died, and rose the 3rd day.
No Christian debates that. If you are a Christian, you believe He died
Friday, was buried before sundown, and minutes after the sun cracked
the horizon, He rose.
If you look back a few chapters, He's in a HEATED argument with the
Pharisees, in front of the disciples. (I'm not going to look it up,
because the precise, minute details don't matter)
He is threatened. He replies, "destroy this temple and in 3 DAYS, I
will rebuild it." ( a prophesy about Him being MURDERED by these men
who are threatening Him, and that He will rise the 3rd day)
BUT, the text says He threw EVERYONE WHO HEARD that into ABSOLUTE
CONFUSION, INCLUDING the disciples (who should have known better).
It was recorded, because the Holy Spirit said, "write this one down",
but it was not understood.
The text THEN says, they were all confused. And it was ONLY after He
died and rose, and the writer "looked back at what had happened that
day," as he wrote the gospel,
"AH! THAT is what the Master was talking about."
"Destroy this temple, and I will rebuild it in 3 days! " (the temple
He was referring to was His body!)
And he added the comment,
When we analyze THAT passage, and then we look at OTHER passages of
"this paragraph here makes NO sense! What on EARTH is this guy talking
about?" We YEARs later, DECADES later, CENTURIES later, will observe
a world event.
We will say, "Hmmmmm.. seems to me that Joel or Amos or Daniel
mentioned something about that..." We go and look in our computer
concordance for _____ (the name of the city) or the event that was
just re****ted on the NEWS, and the PROPHESY takes on MEANING where it
was just a jumble of words til now.
And we go right back to Daniel, who was given a WHOLE book of "a peek
into the future." So complete was Daniel's look into the "future
history of the world", that scholars to this DAY debate, 'OBVIOUSLY
Daniel was written AFTER these events. Proof? NO WAY could Daniel have
seen all those things COMING! "
Sure he could have, if God-- who sees the future-- told Daniel what to
write.
Nor did Daniel understand what he was writing!
At this point, Daniel has become little more than a scribe, taking
dictation from the Holy Spirit.
Daniel was told what to write. And towards the end of Daniel, he even
asks, "Lord, when do you plan on explaining all this stuff to me?"
(poetic license here)
God said, basically, "Daniel, TNOYB!" (Daniel, "that's none of your
business!"")
DA 12:5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two
others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank.
6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the
waters of the river, "How long will it be before these astoni****ng
things are fulfilled?"
DA 12:7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the
river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I
heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a
time, times and half a time.
--> "When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all
these things will be completed." <--
(I just noticed this. The Lord Himself SEEMS to be saying, "when
Israel is finally defeated (on SOME level), everything will be
finished!" )
Don't quote me!
--> DA 12:8 I heard, but I did not understand. So I asked, "My
lord, what will the outcome of all this be?" <--
(Lord, all that is well and fine, but I'm not clear on a couple of
things. Would you take a few minutes (or days) and explain,first of
all....")
DA 12:9 He replied, "Go your way, Daniel, because the words are
closed up and sealed until the time of the end.
("No, Daniel! I won't explain! YOu were used to record this stuff for
the generation it's going to unfold to.") [ it's beginning to look a
lot like OURS is the generation this book of Daniel was for, but...
let's wait and see, shall we? ]
Prophesy from the mouth of God:
10" Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked
will continue to be wicked. "
(one of the things this means is martyrdom. Another means
persecution.)
"None of the wicked will understand, "
(boy, ain't THAT the truth!)
"...but those who are wise will understand."
So if you don't understand the Bible, now you have a better grip on
why.
And before you debate WHEN Daniel was written, ask a rabbi.
So if you want the outline of "what's coming next", ( a hint here and
there, like highway signs) read the prophetic books (Joel, Daniel,
Revelation) and begin piecing it together.
Oh! That's a point worth making.
People say, "why isn't there a LOT more detail?" There's enough that
you are being warned. "Repent or perish! The Day of the Lord is upon
us!"
Like you're driving from Los Angeles to Las Vegas. You don't need a
sign every 10 feet telling you you're on the right road. If you stay
"on the straight path" and dont' "veer off" every time you see
something "interesting down a side road",
the way you KNOW you're still on your way to Las Vega is that every 10
miles or so, you see a sign, "Las Vegas 150 miles"... "Las Vegas 125
miles" ... "Las Vegas 100 miles." And you know you're on the right
road.
The Bible prophesies are "spread out" so that those who are
INTERESTED, those who CARE to "stay on the path", can see a sign
occasionally, 'Yep, it's THIS way! You are still on the right road."
Those who ARE NOT interested in getting to Las Vegas will see a _____
down an EXIT, and they'll say, "that looks cool! Think I'll check it
out!"
And they get off the road to Las Vegas.
God bless!
john w
>4. Any others?
>
>5.
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible.prophecy,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.slack,alt.tasteless
Subject: Re: try as i may, i just can't like some Christians.
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 18:43:21 -0700
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On 8 Aug 2006 16:50:53 -0700, "misanthropic_curmudgeon"
<misanthropiccurmudgeon@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>john w wrote:
>
>> Do be aware, "CB", that misanthropic is another who is a LIKELY
>> candidate for being "a demoniac."
>
><sarcasm>
>Yeah, you found me out. I have horns, eat babies, and smear myself
>with virgin menses on the full moon.
></sarcasm>
levity:
You just described 500 witches I know!
I said "demon" not "wiccan'.
>
>Oh, and I ask questions, and dont take pap for a solution.
chuckle.
"Whatever you said!" nod.
>
>I have just resonded to your posting on how you have moved on from a
>church due to its teaching on ***ism and preaching. This means you can
>ask questions.
> 1) Are you also "a demoniac"?
???
no.
r u?
probably.
> 2) At what point does a question asker or bedater become "a demoniac"?
At the point where one surrenders his life to be possessed or
"indwelt" by an "unclean spirit", (fallen angel), "demon".
There are very definite characteristics of demon possession. If you
are unsure, and you'd like to know, if you hear voices in your head,
you may be a demoniac (demon possessed). If you have superhuman
strength, you may be a demoniac.
etc.
You MIGHT want to look up "the characteristics of demon possession" on
the web, just in case some kind soul posted them.
Or I could look it up.
somehow, I suspect you're not truly all that interested.
I'm right aren't I?
;-)
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible.prophecy,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.slack,alt.tasteless
Subject: Re: try as i may, i just can't like some Christians.
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 18:38:14 -0700
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On 8 Aug 2006 16:42:08 -0700, "misanthropic_curmudgeon"
<misanthropiccurmudgeon@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>john w wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On 8 Aug 2006 14:15:16 -0700, "misanthropic_curmudgeon"
>> <misanthropiccurmudgeon@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>> >
>> >christianbeauty wrote:
>> >> no i am not ***ist you completely ignorant person. i am a heck of a
lot
>> >> smarter than you. and luckier too..The(not my) Bible says that
women
>> >> are to be silent in church and that men are to preach.
>> >
>> >So you assign arbitary roles based on ***, and then claim that is not
>> >***ist practice?
>>
>> Christianbeauty doesn't assign arbitrary roles based on ***. She is
>> merely telling you her impression of what the Bible teaches;
>
>She claims "i am not ***ist" and then mentions (and condones) a
>Biblical[TM] reference that "says that women are to be silent in church
>and that men are to preach"
I believe she was talking to Christians, and Christians would be
familiar with the passage, if not all of us would agree with her
interpretation (I don't)
>
>The role of preacher (and preached) are defined by gender in her
>condoned comment.
There certainly is scriptural justification for that view.
No justification is presented.
Again, those to whom she was speaking (other than you) are aware of
the context.
She (OK, probably a
>47yo fat hairy 'he' called mike who manages a cargo dock by night and
>posts by day) condones this distinction on gender, with gendered roles,
>without evidence:
Perhaps, she, like me, doesn't bother to present evidence to those for
whom such evidence would not even be considered. (the Bible)
the accusation that it is arbitrary stands until shown
>otherwise.
Now, ask her-- and me-- if your POV matters.
( I am betting that she would agree with me that you are a TROLL, and
your view is irrelevant to anyone but you)
>
>
>> note that different churches teach very differently on that issue.
>
>Yet there is only one true word of God??
Was there a point?
Perhaps, in the long run, the issue doesn't matter to God. God DOES
let us make up our own minds on many issues.
What brand of toothpaste to buy. Whether to use a soft or medium or
firm toothbrush. What sort of car we prefer to drive.
Christianity is FULL of choices. Whether to hire a female or a male
pastor is one of those choices.
I don't think God cares.
Why do you?
>
>
>> Her statements are typically Southern Baptist, which she stated to
>> begin with. I am also of a Southern Baptist background (mother was a
>> Southern Baptist pastor's daughter), but I LONG ago left the Southern
>> Baptists due to precisely that teaching and others.
>
>There is hope for you yet!!!
There always was. I live a life of hope.
Now, to get YOU some hope!
Oh, and by the way, my mother (who "was born a Southern Baptist, and
will DIE a Southern Baptist") had left the Southern Baptists and
joined MY "Independent Baptist" church before she passed on.
;-)
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible.prophecy,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.slack,alt.tasteless
Subject: Re: try as i may, i just can't like some Christians.
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 18:31:14 -0700
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On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 12:27:30 -0700, Zapanaz
<http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 12:01:10 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>>I'm not scoffing at "ideas I don't agree with", I am making fun of you
>>>because you obviously attribute to "demons" things that anybody in
>>>their right mind would attribute to simple normal human behavior.
>>
>>You are now making yourself the one who sets the standard?
>>
>>chuckle.
>>
>>>
>>>>That's called ignorance, bigotry, and being unenlightened.
>>>>
>>>
>>>It is not an absence of ignorance, of bigotry or of enlightenment to
>>>refuse to believe obvious bull****.
>>
>>chuckle.
>
>keep chuckling, that will make the mental illness demons go away.
chuckle. Are you still there? You are? Then, it didn't work, and you
lied!
:-)
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible.prophecy,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.slack,alt.tasteless
Subject: Re: try as i may, i just can't like some Christians.
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 18:29:22 -0700
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On 8 Aug 2006 12:42:27 -0700, "occupant" <djoccupant@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>john w wrote:
>
>> I'd be very curious how you define "true Christians"; I'd also be very
>> interested to know what makes you think you're any judge of how to
>> measure them.
>
>Try to read the rest of the paragraph next time even though I hurt your
>feelings...
I read it all. I simply "chopped" where you became irrelevant.
>
>My definition of a true Christian is one who doesn't pursue "earthly"
>things (i.e., computers or Usenet). He wandered and witnessed, correct?
As I said, "irrelevant."
You are missing how-- in fact-- early church history (call it the
epistles and beyond/the New Testament AFTER the gospels; that is, MOST
of the New Testament) reflects that, even though Jesus METAPHORICALLY
preached "sell all that you own, give it away, and THEN take up your
cross (symbol for death), and follow me!"
The 1st Christians after He died and rose and ascended OBVIOUSLY
understood He was allegorizing the DEVOTION He expected.
Because it says that the church came together, and each brought
something-- food or wine or cash-- to be "distributed among the
member****p." IF everyone had given EVERYTHING AWAY, they would not
have had anything left to "distribute". There is the FAMOUS story of
Annanias and Sapphira, two wealthy Christians, who owned a piece of
land, which they sold for BIG $$$. They brought PART of the proceeds
to the church. Let's say they made $100 K on the sale. They came and
gave $10 K to the church. When the elders asked Annanias "did you
bring ALL the money?" he said, "of course!" And he was struck dead.
NOT for WITHHOLDING money (which was his to keep). He was struck dead
for LYING about it.
A few hours later, his Mrs, Sapphira came, and told the same story.
Peter then confronted HER. "The money you had was yours, as was the
PROPERTY! Why then would you LIE?" And she was struck dead, too!
There was no dispute, "We thought you had sold all your property!"
The dispute was over "how much $$$ was involved!"
If you are going to preach me a sermon, I suggest you know the
subject.
You obviously do not.
>
>I believe a true Christian let's others have their opinion and
>gleefully "agrees to disagree".
I have NO problem with other POVs. What I have a problem with is that
you don't say, " I disagree." You make out like I'm a blithering
idiot, and so I return the compliment. Something Jesus said about
"don't cast your pearls to the swine" comes to mind here.
And, you are not in a position to correct me, since you don't know
scripture. (* I do. )
Something about turning the other cheek
>right?
SHOW me what you mean!
(I'd rather SEE you LIVE your sermon, than hear it or read it, ANY
DAY!)
>
>I believe a true Christian wouldn't let pride take over their
>emotions....
I agree. Yet I don't know many / any who live up to your perfect
example. Except-- perhaps-- you.
>>"I'd also be very interested to know what makes you think you're any
judge of how to >measure them"
>Who are you to judge the way I judge?
I am a Christian, I am a scholar, I am an elder. I am forgiven. And--
to some extent, I am a pastor.
Asked, answered.
>
>p.s. Jesus didn't ARISE from the dead.
lol!!
And now, you can talk to yourself!
I don't communicate with blasphemers!
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible.prophecy,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.slack,alt.tasteless
Subject: Re: try as i may, i just can't like some Christians.
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 18:17:43 -0700
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On 8 Aug 2006 14:39:37 -0700, "misanthropic_curmudgeon"
<misanthropiccurmudgeon@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>christianbeauty wrote:
>> thanks for the warning john but i think that we both know from my
topic
>> that my fiestyness gets the best of me and if they wana fight ok
>
>Plato explored this, as has Kelly and various other thinkers through
>the years.
>An out-of-pro****tion reaction is often assciated when the closely held
>beliefs are challenged or shown to be false. the person confronted is
>faced with two choices: integrate the new data, or reject it.
>
>Interstingly, your Church[TM] has a history of the out-of-pro****tion
>rejection of new data: Copernicus is just one example.
The problem as you have expressed it, mis, is that you confuse Roman
Catholicism with historical (New Testament) Christianity.
Which is like confusing a Rolls Royce with a Model T.
There are some SIMILARITIES, and that's about it.
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible.prophecy,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.slack,alt.tasteless
Subject: Re: try as i may, i just can't like some Christians.
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 18:16:01 -0700
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On 8 Aug 2006 13:41:50 -0700, "christianbeauty"
<southernbelle729@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>I assure you John i lay my hands heart and soul on the Bible itself I
>am 17. and thanks for the encouragement and rescuing on my topic ...i
>was getting tired of David...he is so superfluous
hugs n kisses, m'love!
Call me your "big bro'" or your "Uncle" or your "grandpa", whichever
floats your boat!
And as long as I've been in here, kickin' booty, I'm by your side so
long as you stay close to Jesus and express/exercise some tolerance
for someone LESS tolerant of the bs-slingers than you (meaning ME)
If I "let rip" with a "juicy word", occasionally, forgive me. I am one
with "anger issues", but I love Jesus, and He forgives.
I also have a different take on "vulgarity". I believe several
prophets got VERY vulgar, I believe Jesus got very vulgar, and I
believe Peter and Paul did as well.
With MY background, I have some very different views on a variety of
topics. You don't have to agree, for as Paul said, "let each of you be
convinced of his own point of view."
Hang in there!
You certainly have an ally!
john w
>john w wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On 7 Aug 2006 15:58:28 -0700, "christianbeauty"
>> <southernbelle729@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>> >thanks for the warning john but i think that we both know from my
topic
>> >that my fiestyness gets the best of me and if they wana fight ok
>>
>> Don't waste your energy or your keystrokes apologizing to ME!!
>>
>> You keep being who God created you to be!
>>
>> If you upset MY apples, I'll let you know!
>>
>> If I may say so, and say it BLUNTLY: I don't know who you are or how
>> old you are. I have my doubts about your "young age".
>>
>> However, so far, I see a modern, young, educated (even if your grammar
>> is terrible- I'm a writer, so I notice that),
>>
>> sincere Christian woman.
>>
>> With attitude, and a "mouth", BOTH of which I encourage.
>>
>> In some ways, you sound like a female, younger ME!
>>
>> "Don't let the buggars get you down!"
>>
>> john w
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>>
>> >john w wrote:
>> >> x-no-archive: yes
>> >> On 7 Aug 2006 11:38:38 -0700, "christianbeauty"
>> >> <southernbelle729@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >> copyright 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of
>> >> this article may be used elsewhere without express written consent
of
>> >> the author
>> >> >I think that maybe you should go to a church near you and talk to
a
>> >> >pastor and he'll answer your question(s). But as for me I would
rather
>> >> >believe in Jesus and go heaven than be foolish and live for
eternity in
>> >> >hell. It makes more sense to be a Christian than an atheist. If
you
>> >> >believe in something than you wont fall youll stumble if you dont
>> >> >believe in anything you skip fall and die. I hope that God calls
on
>> >> >your heart and that you change . I ll pray for you...
>> >> >
>> >> >Praying for you
>> >> >
>> >> >Jordyn
>> >>
>> >> Jordyn, I have told any number of people that there is quite a bit
of
>> >> demonic activity in here. I believe the post above yours and the
one
>> >> below yours prove my point.
>> >>
>> >> Expect some major SHRIEKING from these guys now that I have pointed
>> >> out who they actually are.
>> >>
>> >> 'You -________ _____ _____ _____ _____ _-___ _____ _-___ _____,
there
>> >> aren't any such things as demons! You _____ _____ _____ _____
_____
>> >> _____ _____ _____ !!
>> >>
>> >> (expletives deleted)
>> >>
>> >> ;-)
>> >>
>> >> I say, "if it walks like a demon, and it talks like a demon, and it
>> >> smells like a demon, it's a demon."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> God bless!
>> >>
>> >> john w
>> >> >
>> >> >Mr Cresote wrote:
>> >> >> "nikolai kingsley" <sheramil@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
message
>> >> >> news:4jnmv9F8u4i6U1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://journal.davidbyrne.com/2006/08/american_madras.html
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > yes, that david byrne. about a documentary called "Jesus
Camp", where
>> >> >> > children are told they may have to become martyrs to the
cause.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Xian suicide bombers for jeezus h christ ?????
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > i guess the full-on jeezoids don't want to be left behind in
the
>> >> >> > Religious Fundamentalist Brainwa****ng war.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Their so-called rapture-of-the-church is 100% bull****.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Personally, and if their version of future events
>> >> >> is accurate, I am looking forward to swinging a scimitar
>> >> >> and lopping off the heads of xian men, women and children
>> >> >> to the mello tunes of The Rolling Stones, Jimmi Buffet
>> >> >> and/or Barbara Streisand....(?)
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Religion-haters (was: Re: Judaism, not Islam, is the "best"
religion - according to the facts of history, not opinion (was: Re: A few
things I've learned in my 3 decades on Earth:))
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 18:08:27 -0700
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>
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On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 20:17:59 -0400, NOspam@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 10:37:19 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>
>>I would not "plonk" you Robib! You're my daily laugh! (well, one of
>>them)
>>
>>
>> Why did you lie about that?
>
>
>She didn't. You DID claim to PLONK her, numbnuts.
>I'll keep you guessing, but I DO have that on record!
As another put it,
"Whooooooooooooooooosh!"
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: Weatherly - "Ye did it unto me"
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 18:06:16 -0700
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On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 20:30:28 -0400, NOspam@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 10:30:45 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>
>>So, all that cleverness just wouldn't fit into ONE post, eh?
>
>
>Cleverness?
>
>WHAT cleverness, old man weatherless? You HAVE NONE.
Wow, Elaine! You turned that one around so ...
cleverly!
;-)
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.christian.adventist,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.relig
ion.christian.lutheran,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
Subject: Re: CAN I CREATE..
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 18:01:08 -0700
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On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 00:45:22 GMT, "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>"john w @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:r54id21rts03c2264as4q44vlfifmkdlas@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> "Andrew" wrote:
>>>"john w @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>" wrote in message
news:umhhd296f29b80mu04rcasg01qg23dpj7e@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> "Andrew" wrote:
>>>>>"Lady Carrigaholt" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can only wish them peace of the spirit, Stephen..
>>>>>
>>>>>Most now have Stephen on their blocked list, since his posts are
mainly
>>>>>filled with the darkness of Christless and loveless responses to
those he
>>>>>disagrees with who are non-Catholic, thus testifying that his own
religion
>>>>>has no power to deliver him from the pit.
>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> And we should all certainly add YOU to our blocked list, since YOU
are
>>>> filled with the darkness of Christless and loveless responses to
those
>>>> you disagree with who are non-Adventists.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I will pray for you too, John!
>>
>> Thanks! And I will pray for you as well, that you will one day soon
>> see the light, and that you will leave the darkness of the law for the
>> light of His Love.
>
>I have renounced all legalism, but not the law of love which He told
>us is "holy, just and good"..and spiritual in nature.
OH?
Are you not "Andrew the Adventist?"
hmmmmm.
>
>7:12 The law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
>
>7:14 We know that the law is spiritual:
> (Rom 7:12.14)
>
>
>
>Andrew
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: Weatherly - "Ye did it unto me"
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 18:03:22 -0700
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On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 20:27:31 -0400, NOspam@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 10:25:53 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>
>>(sorry for giving it away after all these years, guys! I just couldn't
>>help myself)
>
>
>You gave yourself and your insanity away the first time you posted to
>Usenet, numbnuts...
Only you!
snif
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Religion-haters (was: Re: Judaism, not Islam, is the "best"
religion - according to the facts of history, not opinion
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 17:59:54 -0700
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On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 20:11:53 -0400, NOspam@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 10:18:26 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Only you could hurt me so, Jimmy!
>>
>>Only you!
>>
>WHEN will you ever think up a NEW LINE, Mr. Bore?
You can always stop reading my posts, if they bore you so!
smirk
I obviously don't "bore you" enough that you stop monitoring my every
burp, scratch and fart.
Did you put that camera in my shower, and the one in the toilet?
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: Angry with People
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:04:26 -0700
Message-ID: <mr5id2p8j347778khtkiebob62i1iahopl@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On 8 Aug 2006 13:34:23 -0700, "christianbeauty"
<southernbelle729@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>13 and forest green
When you, CB, get to the place where what others think truly does not
matter-- where only what JESUS thinks matters--
but, you may WELL already be there!
Which is why I said-- and reaffirm-- you seem wise beyond your years!
It took me into my 40s to "find my place." And when I discovered the
REAL artistic talent within (my writing, my photography, etc), I found
my place in the world.
What artists look to do is to "make their mark" by changing the world
in some small way. And-- looking back-- I have done that.
Funny how so many in here mock my "individuality", but how many have
also incor****ated some of my "one-liners."
God bless!
You make me wish I was 18 again!
( And I don't mean that in a "you-me" way. I mean that in a "you
remind me when I was your age!" ) In some ways, I would LOVE to go
back and do it all over again.
;-)
john w
>john w wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 09:19:03 -0400, High_Colonic@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Miss Anne
>> Thrope) wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>> >Folks, this is why we don't let 17 year olds vote.
>> >
>> >They're stupid.
>>
>>
>> You sound 15 and GREEN with envy!"
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> I'm right, aren't I?
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From: john w <johnw<no>@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: Angry with People
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 15:59:26 -0700
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On 8 Aug 2006 13:33:45 -0700, "christianbeauty"
<southernbelle729@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>ma'am i dont consider myself stupid and if i am uneducated in a matter
>i would like to think that my elders would kindly educate me. you
>however speak in a way that even you do not know exactly what you would
>like to say. If anyone is stupid for speaking their mind it is you.
>that was a waste of space....
I believe I warned you, dear, that this is a place full of sharks. Be
careful where you swim!
;-)
God bless!
A big brother,
John w
>john w wrote:
|
