"And God created woman in His image."
You are READING THINGS INTO THE TEXT that the text doesn't say.
Unless you want to render it in Hebrew!
;-)
>
>Created. - Man in his essential part, the image of God in him, was
>entirely a new creation. We discern here two stages in his creation.
>The general fact is stated in the first clause of the verse, and then
>the two particulars. “In the image of God created he him.” This is the
>primary act, in which his relation to his Maker is made prominent. In
>this his original state he is actually one, as God in whose image he
>is made is one. “Male and female created he them.” This is the second
>act or step in his formation. He is now no longer one, but two, - the
>male and the female. His adaptation to be the head of a race is hereby
>completed. This second stage in the existence of man is more
>circumstantially described hereafter .
>
>^^^^^taken from BARNES' Commentary, with thanks...
>
>
>Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the
>field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see
>what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living
>creature, that was the name thereof.
>
>MORE false teaching from the resident liar of Usenet corrected, thanks
>to the Bible.
How is a "different take" "false teaching?"
Elaine, you are a basket case!
HATE!???
You INVENTED it!
I truly pity those under your "care."
Likely you stick pins in them and shove ice into their underwear when
no one's looking!
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Subject: Re: The Trinity is a fallacy
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:44:42 -0700
Message-ID: <qfvpc2drtuqn00ogsqa2v81sl8pg1i65iu@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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On 30 Jul 2006 07:22:04 -0700, "Peace Crusader"
<acfernando@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>Dear John W and my Fellowmen,
>
>john w wrote:
>> The issue is certainly debatable, and I have certainly heard arguments
>> for both sides.
>>
>> However, since "God is Spirit" ("and those who wor****p Him must
>> wor****p Him in Spirit and in Truth")
>>
>> He in fact has NO physical body. You are confusing a Spiritual being
>> with a cor****eal one.
>
>My reply:
>I agree with you that God is a Spirit. And so are we. In John 4:24,
>it states (KJV): "God is a Spirit; and they that wor****p him must
>wor****p him in spirit and in truth."
>
>How were we created? We were created in the image of God, in His
>likeness. What is God? God is a spirit. What are we then? We are
>also spirits like God. God lives forever, so shall we. And where
>shall we live forever? It depends on how we led our lives here on
>earth. On Judgment Day, God will reward those who knew Him and obeyed
>Him by accepting them to live with Him in His kingdom in Heaven, and
>those who denied Him or disobeyed Him will be punished and sent to Hell
>to suffer there -- forever.
>
>Where is our spirit now? Our spirit resides in our physical body. If
>there is no spirit in the physical body, it is dead. It is lifeless.
>James 2:26 states that the body without the spirit is dead.
>
>Whether the physical body is a male or a female, the spirit that is in
>the physical body is neither male nor female. It does not have any
>gender.
>
>The true God grant us the strength so that our body and soul will not
>be tempted to sin.
>
I have not one single quibble with this post.
Pax!
john w
>With love, your brother in Jesus,
>Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader
>Motto: pro aris et focis
>http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
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Subject: Re: The Trinity is a fallacy
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:42:16 -0700
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On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 23:40:39 +1200, colp <colp@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:45:40 +1200, colp <colp@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>>
>>>john w wrote:
>>>
>>>>x-no-archive: yes
>>>>On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:48:53 +1200, colp <colp@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>>>>article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>>>>author
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>bam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Peace Crusader" <acfernando@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Any spirit is more intellgient than you and can fool any human.
That's
>>>>>>>>why
>>>>>>>>it's forbidden to mess with the spirit world.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>My reply:
>>>>>>>What or who is the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised He would send
in
>>>>>>>John chapters 14, 15 and 16? Is that a person or a "force" or
what?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The Holy Spirit is the Paraclete, the third person of the Holy
Trinity.
>>>>>
>>>>>Is the Holy Spirit male or female?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The Holy Spirit, like God (the Father) is neuter gender.
>>>
>>>False. A father is always male.
>>
>>
>> The issue is certainly debatable, and I have certainly heard arguments
>> for both sides.
>>
>> However, since "God is Spirit" ("and those who wor****p Him must
>> wor****p Him in Spirit and in Truth")
>
>Sorry, that's a mistranslations of the Aramaic, which starts "Spirit is
>for God..."
I'm not the one mis-translating.
;-)
>
>There's an account of YHWH eating a meal with Abraham in Genesis 18.
That's one of the passages to which I alluded. God taking "human
form". In this case, Abraham thought he was dining with an "angel"
because that's how the account is recounted.
It's only (IIRC) after the "angel" or "angels" leave that Abraham
realizes he's been in the presence of God, Himself.
AGAIN, we're talking about Abraham being the "father of a patriarchal
nation" who would not have accepted a feminine deity.
"God is Spirit."
or "God is a Spirit."
And with your limited understanding of the spiritual concepts
presented in the Bible, it's not unheard of that you would fail to
grasp the deeper meanings.
And AGAIN, TECHNICALLY since Colossians 1 says that Christ (the Son)
is the IMAGE of the invisible, we deduce that WHENEVER God takes
visible human shape (in the Old Testament) that "appearance", that
"form" of God is the Son.
john w
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
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Subject: Re: Tommie some tips on dealing with Roger
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:35:46 -0700
Message-ID: <lcupc25gqunmb8itbo2msbq5mvfree035d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:06:01 GMT, Roger <roger@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
> (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
> someone claiming to be Bible John wrote
> in message <1154274022_14269@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
>
>>Take this from someone that has a ton of Roger type people constantly
on my
>>butt.
>
>Well, if you didn't post so many lies, they wouldn't be pointed out to
>you.
"Well said."
>
>Have you talked to the idiot child about his identification with the
>CI movement?
Now there's a new one on me. "Christian Identity?" I now have some
homework.
"Thank God for the Internet so many CURSE!"
>
>>Tommie I find no hard evidence to indicate Roger is nothing but an
Atheist
>>or an Agnostic.
>
>Care to try again, without the double negative?
smirk.
Now you'll need to explain "double negative" to BJ!
(presuming he listens; and one of BJ's "hot buttons' is ANYONE
correcting him/particularly about his ATROCIOUS grammar and mis-used
words)
With the above, he'll likely whine / shriek "You figured it out,
didn't you?"
Answer: " Not necessarily."
>
>>In that event I do not think its wise to attack and bash him
>>as I strive not to do this with plain unbelievers. However those that
claim
>>to be saved, yet teach another gospel (Steve Winter and Bible Bob as
>>examples) are a different story and they must be publicly exposed and
>>confronted as I try to do. These devils and antichrists are condemmed
(Gal
>>1:8).
>
>What about those who believe that Xtianity entire is a fraud
>perpetuated by the Jews?
Now THAT remark *I* would like explained!
:-)
Having devoted the bulk of my youth and all my adult life (some 45
years thus far) to proving my Christianity...
Paul said, "be ready (prepared) with an answer for the hope that is
within you ("why do you believe that?")
>
>>Tommie have you tried to love Roger? Roger needs love and its obvious
he is
>>not getting much.
>
>LOL -- as if you knew anything at all about my personal life.
From one's posts, depending on how much detail is involved, a lot can
be gleaned-- if not "everything."
For example, I can tell already (and this is the first of your posts
*I* have read, you're a "hater."
>
>>Instead of fighting him why not try to love him? Jesus
>>said that we need to love those that persecute us. If you are a
Lutheran (as
>>you claim)
>
>No, zie is *not* a Lutheran. zie quit that church because they didn't
>hate as much as zie does.
>
>So now, zie's a Christian Identity follower.
>
>>and born again in Christ by accepting his sacrifice on the cross
>>for your sins, then I think you should try to love Roger.You have the
Holy
>>Spirit as Jesus said (John), and need to have fruit (Gal 5:22).
>>
>>One man that is constantly on my butt named David Horn, I am trying to
love.
>>Its hard, but it can be done. Yes I have made mistakes (and Horn will
point
>>out all; these in a reply) but I think the Bible makes it clear that
Horn is
>>unsaved and headed to Hell. Horn needs a savior and so does Roger.
>
>The state of Roger's soul is no one's business but Rogers.
Actually, you are wrong on several counts. The God of the Bible makes
your soul's state the business of every real Christian you encounter.
Satan (whether you choose to acknowledge his existence or you don't)
is very concerned with your soul.
>
>Now, what does you saviour have to say about the lies both you and the
>idiot child continue to post?
There are a number of sins that will keep the sinner out of heaven,
presuming the sins are not compulsory (the result of a mental
disorder, which MAY be Bible John's situation)
Lying is one sin that will keep you out of heaven (and by the default
of "what's left"? ) will end one up in the hot place.
john w
>
>>John
>>
>>PS- Tommie have you been Baptized? Acts 2:38 says that after salvation
we
>>need to be Baptized. No I do not believe in Baptismal Regeneration
theology
>>(as the false christians do like Steve Winter). But the Bible commands
a
>>Baptism as a sign to others that you are saved.
>
>But Christian Identity types feel that baptism is *also* a fraud
>perpetuated by the Jews.
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
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Subject: Re: Exposing Roman Catholcisim
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 03:03:50 -0700
Message-ID: <2v0pc2phchcrh75s8irbdp2cc6cf0nfr1e@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 05:49:08 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 17:20:49 -0700, "Bible John"
>> <john.doggett@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>>> Horn do you ever have anything nice to say? If not then why are you
>>> here? Jason got tired of you and so am I.
>>
>> John, why on EARTH do you waste your time and energy on such?
>> Have you not YET figured out that Dave Horn is an ATTENTION WHORE like
>> Phar Lap and others?
>>
>> He is here for ONE purpose: To waste your time, your energy, and to
>> antagonize you!
>>
>> And--no-- he NEVER has anything good to say!
>>
>> (he's likely a demoniac, whereas YOU are simply psychotic)
>>
>
>I'm tempted to ask which John is being addressed here.
>
I -- John Weatherly -- just said that John Wolf is psychotic.
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Subject: Re: Exposing Roman Catholcisim
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 03:02:08 -0700
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>
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On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 05:37:11 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On 29 Jul 2006 18:11:17 -0700, "2Whösöever2" <ontheskagit@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>>>
>>> Mike Painter wrote:
>>>> You may also be able to think of some nice way to acknowledge that
>>>> this is a copyright violation.
>>>
>>> Not to mention a violation of Christian ethics (which he likely had
>>> to take a course in at Simpson).
>>
>>
>> Again, if he had permission to copy and modify pages from another
>> Christian source/ or non-Christian source, it's not illegal.
>>
>> Some presume SOOOOO much!
>
>Giving credit for such work would be a polite thing and, as with all the
>stuff, you claim, without evidence the assumption is he just took it.
>
I certainly would not EVER give John Wolf 2 centavos (that's 2 cents
in Spanish, by the way)
worth of credit for knowing to attribute or not.
However, I DO know that there is a plethora of Christian authors (?)
out there on the Internet who would be TOO happy to share not only
material but their pages.
Likely, if you were to track down the source of John's "borrowed"
pages, they would send him a gentle/or NOT so gentle reminder
(attribute or stop using my page)
Like you, I agree that John has NO scruples WHATSOEVER, considering
his latest rip off of ME!
But I would not assume he didn't get permission. I WOULD assume he
didn't THINK or didn't BOTHER to attribute.
Why don't you (IF you DO know where the page(s) came from) give the
original author a buzz?
As an author (for real), I know all fellow authors AND artists (I am
both author AND artist) really appreciate help in keeping track of our
intellectual property.
If John has stolen it (I don't doubt he has), he should be held
responsible.
All I said was, "Don't be so sure!"
I ENCOURAGE you to prosecute this!
I fully intend to prosecute those who have ripped ME off as well!
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.atheism,alt.religion,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.20
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Subject: Re: Raising the dead --- WHAT THE FU*K!!!!
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 03:23:37 -0700
Message-ID: <p12pc219ftajeu4qt79oo6nm6c649rmvln@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 02:10:12 -0400, "Sugien" <dinosoft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>"john w" <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>news:akcnc2do42qr1jstgh5c15krllpim77e3b@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:37:24 -0400, "Sugien" <dinosoft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>>>
>>>"john w" <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>news:4q3nc25n6mdl3eltlrbg1nf14ddpi0voro@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> x-no-archive: yes
>>>> On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 01:12:57 -0400, "Sugien" <dinosoft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>>>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>>>> author
>>>>>
>>>>>"The Usher" <The_Money_Collector@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>>>news:Nf2dnU4M9oHZH1TZnZ2dnUVZ_q-dnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>> Thus Spake: *G* *O* *D* *S* *C* *R* *E* *A* *T*
*O*
>>>>>> *R*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Repost from Bob*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello. I was wondering how apologists for Christianity respond
to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Bible story in Matthew 27:52-53
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/27.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which says;
>>>>>> When Jesus was resurrected "the graves were opened and many
bodies
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> saints which slept arose, and came out of their graves after
his
>>>>>> resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto
many."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What did they do when they went to town? Why isn't there any
Roman
>>>>>> record
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> this since having a bunch of dead people climb out of their
graves
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> walk around town and who were seen by many would have gotten
the
>>>>>> attention of the Romans! Are these living dead still on earth?
What
>>>>>> happened to them? Where did they go? Did they die again?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To me, this kind of nonsense is insulting to God. Give him a
>>>>>> break!
>>>>>
>>>>>Well for one thing unless those that arose wanted those that knew
them
>>>>>when
>>>>>they were alive, they would not know it was them by just looking.
>>>>
>>>> Talk about uneducated, ill-informed SPECULATION!
>>>
>>>Nope,
>>>>
>>>> You don't even know the Old Testament well enough to know that those
>>>> who were raised from the dead were REQUIRED by Jewish law (Mosaic)
to
>>>> go to the High Priests for purification.
>>>> (it was considered ritually unclean to touch / be among/around any
>>>> dead animal)
>>>
>>>Seeing as how only the Pharisees say there is a resurrection:
>>>
>>>Acts 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection,
neither
>>>angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.
>>>
>>>Also seeing as how the bible
>>
>> As I said, s****t, when you DELIBERATELY type "Bible" lower case, I
>> find you most offensive.
>>
>> Since you now have established CLEARLY that you don't give a rat's
>> butt whether you offend me or you don't...
>>
>> "If my eating meat offends my brother, then it is a sin to eat meat in
>> front of him..."
>>
>> You OPENLY sin in my presence.
>>
>> I therefore, have nothing else to say to you.
>>
>>
> What if I were to say that I am offended by your continued
chastising
>about what I consider to be a *non-issue* and your crying foul when my
>typing bible with the b in lower case? You see if you were *not* the
*only*
>one which felt the way you do, I would most likely would relent and make
a
>conscience effort to try and change what I do by *rote*; because of
having
>always typed bible the same what for decades.
Oh! NOW I get it!
So, since I have been fornicating and stealing for some 30 years now,
it should be ok, since I'm "kinda in the habit after all these years,
huh?"
:-)
sin is sin.
And you just like to make excuses. AND, s****t, I am NOT the only
person who has mentioned it, which makes YOU a LIAR!
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
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Subject: Re: Raising the dead --- WHAT THE FU*K!!!!
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 03:21:10 -0700
Message-ID: <eo1pc2l77o3gtcnvv203ljfmiohane4g4m@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 02:10:12 -0400, "Sugien" <dinosoft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>"john w" <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>news:akcnc2do42qr1jstgh5c15krllpim77e3b@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:37:24 -0400, "Sugien" <dinosoft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>>>
>>>"john w" <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>news:4q3nc25n6mdl3eltlrbg1nf14ddpi0voro@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> x-no-archive: yes
>>>> On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 01:12:57 -0400, "Sugien" <dinosoft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>>>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>>>> author
>>>>>
>>>>>"The Usher" <The_Money_Collector@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>>>news:Nf2dnU4M9oHZH1TZnZ2dnUVZ_q-dnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>> Thus Spake: *G* *O* *D* *S* *C* *R* *E* *A* *T*
*O*
>>>>>> *R*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Repost from Bob*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello. I was wondering how apologists for Christianity respond
to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Bible story in Matthew 27:52-53
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/27.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which says;
>>>>>> When Jesus was resurrected "the graves were opened and many
bodies
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> saints which slept arose, and came out of their graves after
his
>>>>>> resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto
many."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What did they do when they went to town? Why isn't there any
Roman
>>>>>> record
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> this since having a bunch of dead people climb out of their
graves
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> walk around town and who were seen by many would have gotten
the
>>>>>> attention of the Romans! Are these living dead still on earth?
What
>>>>>> happened to them? Where did they go? Did they die again?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To me, this kind of nonsense is insulting to God. Give him a
>>>>>> break!
>>>>>
>>>>>Well for one thing unless those that arose wanted those that knew
them
>>>>>when
>>>>>they were alive, they would not know it was them by just looking.
>>>>
>>>> Talk about uneducated, ill-informed SPECULATION!
>>>
>>>Nope,
>>>>
>>>> You don't even know the Old Testament well enough to know that those
>>>> who were raised from the dead were REQUIRED by Jewish law (Mosaic)
to
>>>> go to the High Priests for purification.
>>>> (it was considered ritually unclean to touch / be among/around any
>>>> dead animal)
>>>
>>>Seeing as how only the Pharisees say there is a resurrection:
>>>
>>>Acts 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection,
neither
>>>angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.
>>>
>>>Also seeing as how the bible
>>
>> As I said, s****t, when you DELIBERATELY type "Bible" lower case, I
>> find you most offensive.
>>
>> Since you now have established CLEARLY that you don't give a rat's
>> butt whether you offend me or you don't...
>>
>> "If my eating meat offends my brother, then it is a sin to eat meat in
>> front of him..."
>>
>> You OPENLY sin in my presence.
>>
>> I therefore, have nothing else to say to you.
>>
>>
> What if I were to say
I BELIEVE I just got done saying that I have nothing else to say to
you. I have CLEARLY pointed out a scripture you have violated in my
regard, and RATHER than apologizing, and repenting, you
make excuses.
we are Sooooooooooooooooo done!
I don't see the scripture saying
"argue about it for a month".
"Make 10 EXCUSES for why it's ok to offend your friend".
"Tell him "look the other way while I eat this ****terhouse!"
"I don't like how YOU fold your NAPKIN! So what?"
The Bible simply says, "if your behavior offends, and you don't stop,
you are sinning!"
Meaning you are what is called "apostate". You are sinning, and you
don't care!
Which was my point to BEGIN with a week or so ago!
You don't follow Genesis to Revelation; you pick those passages that
ring your bell, and the rest get flushed down the toilet!
I'll let you explain that arrogance to Jesus when you see Him!
;-)
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible,alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religio
n.christian.biblestudy,alt.religion.christian.lutheran,alt.religion.chris
tian.roman-catholic,free.christians
Subject: Re: Exposing Roman Catholcisim
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 02:53:08 -0700
Message-ID: <onvoc2t8s9tb5mukfvetvau373maequfrb@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>
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> <UFXyg.140251$H71.92957
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>
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On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 05:43:16 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w wrote:
> >>>
> > > Do not pretend to hold non-Roman Catholics to a higher standard
than
>> you set for yourself!
>>
>> Nor would I go to Roman Catholic sources for information. They tend to
>> be NOTORIOUSLY dishonest.
>>
>> For instance, I have encountered VERY FEW Roman Catholics who would
>> actually ADMIT that you / they actually wor****p Mary. They would
>> simply REDEFINE "wor****p" so that the word / concept "no longer
>> applies."
>>
>This inability to believe anybody goes well with your christian image.
>While some may indeed "wor****p" Mary, it is *not* RCC doctrine and is
not
>taught in catechism, even when the nuns do it.
They don't ADMIT to wor****pping Mary, but since you aren't even a
Christian, there is no point WHATEVER in you and me getting into it.
>
>> Likewise, point out the idols in your "churches" and the Roman
>> Catholic merely REDEFINES "idols" so that the term "no longer
>> applies."
>>
>Your definition of an idol.
No. The Bible's definition. If you own a Bible, look it up.
Shall I give you some references?
LEV 26
DT 4
LEV 26:1 " `Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for
yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down
before it. I am the LORD your God.
Do NOT make idols or set up an IMAGE..."
Do not place CARVED STONES..." "to bow down before..."
What sort of IMAGES are FORBIDDEN?
DT 4:15 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you
at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully,
16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol,
an image of any shape,
whether formed like
a man or
a woman,
17 or like any
animal on earth
or
any bird that flies in the air, 18 or like
any creature that moves along the ground or
any fish in the waters below.
To summarize: You may not make images (or bow before them)
of
1. an image of any shape,
2. a man or
3. a woman
4. animal on earth
5. any bird that flies in the air
6. any creature that moves along the ground or
7. any fish in the waters below.
Not MY definition; the Bible's definition.
Good enough?
You wanted clarification, I give you the Bible's rules.
And I have in almost 60 years been in some dozen Roman Catholic
churches and cathedrals, ALL of which contained 2-story high IMAGES of
"the saints". Fine! HOWEVER, I have NEVER NOT seen someone bowing
before one or more of those idols, PRAYING before it.
"You shall NOT BOW before the image, or PRAY to it."
Now some may say, "I may be bowing before the image, but I'm not
praying TO IT."
Then why "bow before it?" That is FORBIDDEN as well!
"Do NOT make idols or set up an IMAGE..."
Do not place CARVED STONES...
"to bow down before..."
Which is EXACTLY what Roman Catholics do!
While all the time denying and redirecting.
"So the image/statue of Abe Lincoln at the Lincoln Memorial is an
idol, then!"
No, it's not. I am from Wa****ngton, D.C., and have visited the
memorials more times than I can count. I have NEVER EVER seen ANYBODY
bowing down before Abe Lincoln's image, or Tom Jefferson's, PRAYING to
it!
>
>
>
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: Bush and Blair See An Op****tunity for Sweeping Mideast
Change
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 02:33:32 -0700
Message-ID: <b3voc2h77h34145psmtp2ss5p5t7emollo@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>
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On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 22:49:22 -0500,
walksalone@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>In <7u2oc25lpnt933kgb305s996mblm2j8l3r@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, on 07/29/06
> at 06:31 PM, john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> decided it was time to play
>his I had family in high places joke one more time, and this is the
>result.
>
>Path:
>authen.yellow.readfreenews.net!green.octanews.net!news-out.octanews.net!
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>From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist
>Subject: Re: Bush and Blair See An Op****tunity for Sweeping Mideast
Change
>Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:31:07 -0700
>Message-ID: <7u2oc25lpnt933kgb305s996mblm2j8l3r@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>
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>
>>x-no-archive: yes
>>On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 11:26:39 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this article
>>may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the author
>>>On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:47:25 GMT, John Wesley Asquith
>>><johnasquith6@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Sure, you bet. Just like they saw an op****tunity for sweeping regime
>>>>change in Afghanistan, Iraq and are now focusing on Iran and Syria.
>>>>Not to mention the mess they've got with North Korea and Pakistan.
>>>>
>>>>Bush should have been impeached long ago for the felonies he has
>>>>committed (yes, he has violated entrenched federal law and abused the
>>>>Constitution galore). Except for the Republican goons being in power
>>>>and aligned with the right-wing-religious-wackos he would have been
>>>>impeached too. Just wait until November. Things will change.
>>>>
>>>>And once Bush would be impeached, Blair would be booted out by his
own
>>>>party in Parliament. Sad us, we have to wait for the op****tunity
that
>>>>comes only once each 4 years. Alas!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I like the response of the Lebanese ambassador on a recent interview:
>>>"You act like the troubles started just 10 days ago!"
>>>
>>>But I'm sure the president of this great nation has an infallible plan
>>>to solve the crisis once and for all.
>
>
>>Being a "DC brat" (born and raised in our nation's capitol), and having
>>had family IN THE ADMINISTRATION during JFK's brief term, let me tell
you
>>something.
>
>Yes, the audience has heard this before.
It wasn't said for your benefit, cute stuff!
;-)
And I AM totally chagrined that your archiving and posting of my every
word suddenly stopped when I told you I was using your archives for my
next book!
You really are trying to inhibit my ability to recreate not only my
history, but to document your pathological nonsense, aren't you?
;-)
I really AM onto you!
:-)
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible,alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religio
n.christian.roman-catholic,free.christians
Subject: Re: Exposing Roman Catholcisim
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 02:41:56 -0700
Message-ID: <9cvoc25gam3uvv9cu0uk7e2lefv8cdtn8k@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 05:46:09 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w wrote:
><snip>
>
>> How in HELL would YOU know if I know how to do research or not,
>>
>> you PATHOLOGICAL LIAR!
>
>We have absolutely no way of knowing if you know how to do research.
>As with all your other claims of brillance, of family, and of fortune,
we
>have no evidence for it.
And so far, neither you nor your boybuddy Dave motivated me one iota
do prove the sky is blue and cherries really are red!
>
>If you do know how to do reesarch, you hide it well.
lol!!
Only YOU can hurt me like that!
:-(
And what on EARTH makes you think I'd waste my time and energy to do
research that I'd post in HERE?
You sound stupider and stupider with every post (I didn't think THAT
was even POSSIBLE)
tsk tsk
One of the things you learn to do in getting a university degree in
Journalism, s****t, is RESEARCH. I excelled as what is called
"Investigative Re****ting" or "Investigative Journalism".
A field of journalism pioneered by such icons as Edward R Murrow.
You have probably never heard of that giant of journalism, but he
invented "you are there" re****ting, by going in our bombers on bombing
raids over Nazi Germany during WW II.
I learned that type of re****ting, and I excelled.
Want to check out my transcripts? I can arrange that if you like.
Pepperdine U, 1974,
Cal State U Northridge, 1977.
Just give me a real name and real address to send them to, and put $20
in a Paypal account to pay for it!
;-)
(put up or shut the F* up!)
john w
>
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible,alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religio
n.christian.roman-catholic,free.christians
Subject: Re: Exposing Roman Catholcisim
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 02:35:57 -0700
Message-ID: <c9voc213g3ml4u9vjh2ce4scspe5keihn2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:00:35 -0700, Dave <dave@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w wrote:
>
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On 29 Jul 2006 19:29:13 -0700, "Dave" <horndw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>>>john w wrote:
>>>> x-no-archive: yes
>>>> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:23:12 -0500, Mike I
>>>> <hope2basaint@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>>>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>>>> author
>>>> >On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 12:58:39 GMT, Dave Oldridge
>>>> ><doldridg@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>"Bible John" <john.doggett@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>>>> >>news:1154151057_9009@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> As the director of a national growing web ministry that is
focused
>>>> >>> on providing resources for bible education, we have not had the
time
>>>> >>> to hunt out every false teacher and belief system (unlike some
>>>> >>> apologetics centered ministries) such as Deception in the
Church,
>>>> >>> Biblical Discernment Ministries, CRI and many others that only
focus
>>>> >>> on false teachers and belief systems.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> However just today in the mail Grace to You (one of CERMS most
>>>> >>> trusted sources) has sent out a mailing and is offering a free
CD or
>>>> >>> tape that speaks about exposing the false doctrines of the Mary
>>>> >>> wor****ppers and of Roman Catholicism. When we receive this CD we
>>>> >>> will listen to it, and Lord willing provide a article on CERM's
>>>> >>> website in our apologetics section on Roman Catholicism.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I'll also send out a post to these groups Lord willing on the
>>>> >>> article update.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> So stay tuned. I know many of you struggle with this, and
certainly
>>>> >>> the Roman Catholic Church has more more influence than some
little
>>>> >>> cult like the Way International, OneNess Pentecostalism,
Christian
>>>> >>> Scientism, or such.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>And probably more than your own heretical cult. Which may explain
>>>> >>your bigotry.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Do you know of the Nicene Creed? Do you believe what it says? Do
you
>>>> >>think it outlines what a Christian must believe or do you think
>>>> >>something should be added?
>>>> >
>>>> >I have to laugh out Loud, John, you state out right that you are
going
>>>> >to source that is anti-Catholic and anti-Marian and you are going
to
>>>> >write a re****t or paper if you like, on source that holds views
that
>>>> >agree with you. Not very scholarly of you is it.
>>>>
>>>> I had to laugh out loud, Mike!
>>>
>>>No doubt this is another phrase that Weatherly will claim is original
>>>with him...
>>>
>>>> You demand of John Wolf things you would refuse to do yourself!
>>>>
>>>> BJ is simply saying that he isn't going to go to the BOTHER of
>>>> EXTENSIVE original research when he already knows that Dr John
>>>> MacArthur is an EXPERT and AUTHORITY (recognized worldwide) on the
>>>> subject under discussion. "Roman Catholicism".
>>>
>>>Whether MacArthur is, indeed, an expert, or he is considered such
>>>because Wolf or Weatherly happen to agree with his conclusions, the
>>>issue of anti-Catholic bigotry in the "research" materials used by
Wolf
>>>is a reasonable issue to approach.
>>
>> And PLEASE tell us all what in HECK makes YOU an "expert" on ANY
>> Christian topic?
>
>I'm not sure I necessarily made any claims to expertise
FINALLY got you to open up and admit that you're an ignorant,
uninformed, uneducated, loud-mouth, bigot and HATER!
THANK you!
:-)
(and since you aren't as bright as a 2 watt light bulb, I continue to
cut you off because you continue to have DIDDLY to say!
)
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.bush,alt.politics,alt.politics,alt.christnet,alt.religion.ch
ristian.baptist
Subject: Re: Bush and Blair See An Op****tunity for Sweeping Mideast
Change
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 02:30:31 -0700
Message-ID: <uvuoc25jm8g9mqgmdtaqknvl0jnrt3d5g9@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:56:20 -0400, Colonel Panic
<kernelpanic@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>In article <33cnc25vsg9s71irsf1a4a7iukoiof56dq@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, john w
><wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 13:50:32 -0400, Colonel Panic
>> <kernelpanic@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>> >In article <k02nc29k0paig34ttj25uodto66ftrtcrg@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, john w
>> ><wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >
>> >> x-no-archive: yes
>> >> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:47:25 GMT, John Wesley Asquith
>> >> <johnasquith6@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> >> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of
the
>> >> author
>> >> >Sure, you bet. Just like they saw an op****tunity for sweeping
regime
>> >> >change in Afghanistan, Iraq and are now focusing on Iran and
Syria.
>> >> >Not to mention the mess they've got with North Korea and Pakistan.
>> >> >
>> >> >Bush should have been impeached long ago for the felonies he has
>> >> >committed
>> >>
>> >> chuckle.
>> >>
>> >> So when are you going to discuss Clinton's TREASON?
>> >>
>> >> Yes, TREASON.
>> >>
>> >> He OPENLY accepted ILLEGAL campaign contributions from two of our
>> >> nation's mortal ENEMIES, North Korea and Red China! (we got it on
>> >> videotape, remember?) The ONLY thing that kept Clinton and AlGore
out
>> >> of federal prison was one of the most LEFT wing Congresses in US
>> >> history!
>> >>
>> >> But go ahead and PRETEND to be outraged!
>> >>
>> >> Did you remember that Clinton was ORDERED by Congress (the same
>> >> assembly that IMPEACHED Nixon, you may recall) to turn over crucial
>> >> documents (some 100 documents REMAIN MISSING TO THIS DAY!)
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Why was Clinton NEVER IMPEACHED FOR CONTEMPT OF CONGRESS, a FELONY
>> >> that REQUIRES IMPEACHMENT?
>> >>
>> >> I think some are too quick to impeach Republicans for SNEEZING, and
>> >> too eager to dismiss Presidential ABUSES if the Prez happens to be
a
>> >> Lefty.
>> >
>> >Damn, you must be on some strong medication to believe all that.
>>
>> Unlike some (read YOU), I am a news HOUND. I was sitting watching 4
>> networks and cable news when you were out barfing your beer at the
>> local s****ts pub.
>>
>>
>> john w
>>
>> And I don't need to "document" THAT any more than I need to "document"
>> the destruction of the Twin Towers on 9-11. Some of this stuff is
>> PURE COMMON KNOWLEDGE.
>>
>> So pull your head out!
>>
>
>I guess that's a "no credible cite available".
I said what I intended to say. You do not have permission to misquote
me.
Were you so interested in the FACTS, rather than your current HUA
disorder, the information should be READILY available on the Internet!
Why don't you do some research, rather than lie?
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,alt.religion.chr
istian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.roman-
catholic,alt.religion.christian.pentecostal
Subject: Re: The Trinity is a fallacy
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 02:28:07 -0700
Message-ID: <sguoc2d7h0942ps2uor03r0d0fuv2supfl@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:45:40 +1200, colp <colp@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:48:53 +1200, colp <colp@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>>
>>>bam wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Peace Crusader" <acfernando@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Any spirit is more intellgient than you and can fool any human.
That's
>>>>>>why
>>>>>>it's forbidden to mess with the spirit world.
>>>>>
>>>>>My reply:
>>>>>What or who is the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised He would send in
>>>>>John chapters 14, 15 and 16? Is that a person or a "force" or what?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The Holy Spirit is the Paraclete, the third person of the Holy
Trinity.
>>>
>>>Is the Holy Spirit male or female?
>>
>>
>> The Holy Spirit, like God (the Father) is neuter gender.
>
>False. A father is always male.
The issue is certainly debatable, and I have certainly heard arguments
for both sides.
However, since "God is Spirit" ("and those who wor****p Him must
wor****p Him in Spirit and in Truth")
He in fact has NO physical body. You are confusing a Spiritual being
with a cor****eal one.
If God has no physical body, and only TOOK on flesh in order to redeem
man, God can not be either male nor female.
He revealed Himself to MAN / the Jews SPECIFICALLY as "masculine"
BECAUSE the Jews were NOTABLY a patriarchal culture. They would NEVER
have accepted either a feminine deity or a "unto us is born this day a
DAUGHTER..."
Likewise, as I hinted above, the patriarchal Jews would never have
accepted a female Messiah.
God who -- by definition -- can assume any form He chooses ("an angel"
in several places in the OT, a dove in the baptism account, a burning
bush in Moses' time, is not limited by human concepts.
john w
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: Deacons and elders
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 02:20:52 -0700
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On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:38:50 -0700, "Vernon" <there@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>"john w" <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>news:fv2oc2hh9edvtttbhlsi7147u9h2ci58pg@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 17:28:21 -0700, "Vernon" <there@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>>>Opinions (from scripture) of the difference, not common usage.
>>>
>>
>>
>> "Elder" can refer to pastor or assistant pastor,
"small" correction here. I had INTENDED to say "associate pastor",
meaning "2nd in command" during any absence by the senior pastor.
If Pastor A (senior) goes on a two-week vacation or if he is invited
on a 1-year (more like 6 month) sabbatical (a trip to Jerusalem to
translate ancient mms, perhaps), Associate Pastor B (associate) is #1
until Pastor A returns. (sadly, I've seen SEVERAL situations where
Pastor B got so popular that year that when Pastor A returned, he
found himself job-hunting, as Pastor B had been installed as "Our New
Senior Pastor.")
This situation ^ is commonly referred to as one variation of the
"church split" because INVARIABLY, the Senior Pastor (former) will not
leave quietly, and those who are not particularly happy about the
"skullduggery" will form a new church with the forced-to-vacate Former
Pastor.
While I was member of the many-times mentioned First Baptist Church of
Van Nuys, CA (the church from which I entered seminary), the pastor
PREVIOUS to the pastor who sponsored me, one Dr Harold Fickett, left
our church to become "President of a Private Christian College" in the
East. Long story short, his "long-term position" was curtailed when he
failed to honor his contract with the college, and when he returned to
our church, we were not interested in re-hiring him (due to his being
fired from the school)
This caused a church split, resulting (Praise the Lord) in the
founding of a new church, with Dr Fickett as the Pastor.!
(I don't mean to bad-mouth Dr Fickett. I loved him dearly. However,
"Dr Fickett, you brought this problem on yourself!")
jw
or to mature ADULT
>> Christians ("elder boards") in "Elder Rule" churches who are
>> appointed/elected by the member****p to conduct the churches business
>> on a number of matters, from making decisions on purchasing / selling
>> property, to selecting new elders (pastors/senior staff/etc) to
>> discipline (when a member is caught beating his wife up)
>>
>> (I don't see a PRECISE definition of what elders DO in scripture; I DO
>> see definitions/criteria of their QUALIFICATION)
>>
>> "The elder is to be the husband of only one wife." (not a polygamist,
>> as polygamy was not uncommon in that day)
>>
>> Tit 1:6 An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man
>> whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild
>> and disobedient.
>>
>> 1 Ti 5:19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is
>> brought by two or three witnesses. 20 Those who sin are to be rebuked
>> publicly, so that the others may take warning.
>>
>>
>> "Deacons" would be those responsible for day-to-day administration of
>> church business. Distributing food to the needy, distributing the
>> Lord's Supper during those services, serving the food to the members
>> during community meals.
>>
>> Taking phone calls from "pari****oners"/members who are in need in
>> some way.
>>
>>
>> In Peter's / Paul's day, it came to the attention of The Elders (the
>> 12) that the widows and orphans and the poor (this is from memory)
>> were not receiving their due (food/monetary help).
>>
>> The 12 got together and decided (wisely) that it was not good
>> ("seemly") for the elders to be "about getting their hands dirty" when
>> THEY should be about the church's SPIRITUAL matters.
>>
>> They decreed (the member****p readily agreed) that the member****p would
>> appoint and then elect "deacons" who would distribute the food to
>> those in need and conduct other "dirty hands" business as they were
>> called upon.
>>
>> This arrangement seems to have worked beautifully for 2,000 years now!
>>
>>
>> Some may see little or no distinction. However the hierarchy works
>> thusly. Should you have a question about Sunday last's sermon, you'd
>> first approach the pastor. If he had time, he would answer directly.
>> IF he was too busy, he would refer you to an elder. You have asked
>> about a SPIRITUAL matter.
>>
>> In some churches (John MacArthur's, for example), the senior elder
>> (Pastor MacArthur) is considered too busy with spiritual matters to
>> interface with the members AT ALL. The word has gone out that he is
>> NOT to be contacted. In this case, the elder board has stepped in to
>> answer all such questions.
>>
>> ( "What did John mean when he said "" The meek will inherit the
>> earth" last Sunday? I don't understand that concept!")
>>
>> That would be a spiritual/scriptural question which would be
>> appropriate for a Mature Christian of Authority (appointed/elected)
>>
>>
>> The DEACON would be the guy you'd call if you knew a family who would
>> be unable to celebrate Christmas with gifts OR a nice meal due to
>> financial hard****p.
>>
>> example. When I was a lad of about 6 or 7, my dad, a taxi driver, got
>> hit head-on one morning. It seriously damaged his leg, left him unable
>> to walk. Our insurance didn't cover it, and our savings was wiped out.
>> Mom explained that "we are not going to have Christmas this year!"
>>
>> We were to be grateful that dad was home alive.
>>
>> Christmas afternoon, 2 - 3 PM, the doorbell rang, and a delegation
>> from church brought us the biggest tree I'd ever seen, and about 5
>> boxes of gifts and another 5 boxes of food.
>>
>> Someone had heard our plight, we were in need, and a deacon was
>> called.
>>
>>
>> That is what "deacons" are all about, the "dirty hands" business of
>> the church that doesn't require any "spiritual authority."
>>
>> When you need financial help-- a week's worth of groceries-- call a
>> deacon or deaconess (typically the deacon's wife/ it's usually a team,
>> if the church grants the women ANY authority-- many do not)
>>
>> When you have a spiritual issue, in many cases, you'd call the
>> "lower-level" deacon, who'd hand off your prayer request to an elder
>> (or at LEAST make the elder board AWARE of your issue)
>>
>> example
>> (sorry this may be long-winded, but for SOME, it's VITAL information,
>> and as an elder, I can give an INFORMED answer.)
>>
>> My mom got a call (or came back from the doctor/ don't recall now)
>> that her biopsy had come back, and she had terminal cancer. "She was
>> being consumed."
>>
>> She immediately called a deacon, who assured her he'd pass the word
>> on. She hung up, within 5 minutes, the phone was ringing every couple
>> of minutes. She'd hang up, and a couple of minutes later, the phone
>> would ring again, as our brothers and sisters in Jesus "checked in" to
>> give us their love and express their concerns and promise their
>> prayers.
>>
>> Some 36 hours later (the afternoon after her emergency surgery), we
>> were called to tell us, her phone call had set off an "international
>> prayer chain". That call had set off a dozen calls, which had set off
>> a 100 more, which had set off a 1,000 more. (each person calling at
>> LEAST a dozen others) Within an hour or two, we quite literally had a
>> MINIMUM of some 10,000 Christians AROUND the WORLD (I THINK that # is
>> accurate) praying for mom's cancer surgery.
>>
>> She went into surgery the next day ("to see if they could do
>> ANYTHING") and there was no TRACE of cancer!
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Oh! And thanks for asking. One of the reasons I wrote such a "long"
>> answer ( to some) is that I also was writing a chapter of my book!
>>
>> :-)
>
>Good answer.
Thanks! As an elder (several times), and as a member of churches that
are/ were both pastor-ruled (the pastor is SENIOR and makes the
decisions with input from the elders who are merely advisers), and as
a member of churches that are / were elder-ruled, I have pretty much
seen all sides.
Which would I pick? I wouldn't. I have seen the shortcomings of both
systems. As long as things known as "humans" run the churches, there
will be problems, and there will be conflicts.
I've seen enough church splits to never want to see another one.
My parents too us to several business meetings of the big Southern
Baptist church we were attending in my diaper / young teen days. They
wanted me to "experience how Christians/member****p and elders conduct
church business." I was too young. What I saw was a dozen
power-hungry elders/deacons and members (the BIG contributors) cursing
each other out, calling each other every name in the book PUBLICLY,
and all but trading punches.
Which is where I came to see even in the 1st C church the elders
yelling and screaming and calling names during "councils" like the
several Paul called.
Calmer heads prevailed (both then and in my childhood), and EVENTUALLY
the peacemakers were able to quiet people down and call for a vote.
In spite of all the anger, the thrown fists (almost), the THREATS to
take someone outside and "explain things", God eventually RE-ENTERED
the discussions, and IN MOST instances, our elders and member****p made
the right decisions.
>Let's see what all say.
This could get VERY interesting.
Thanks for a forum for such discussion.
And thanks for letting me have my say.
john w
>
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christia
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Subject: Re: Exposing Roman Catholcisim
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 19:27:49 -0700
Message-ID: <v76oc21ih18j1922ulk38ghijj6nlkb5cu@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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On 29 Jul 2006 18:11:17 -0700, "2Whösöever2" <ontheskagit@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>Mike Painter wrote:
>> You may also be able to think of some nice way to acknowledge that
this is a
>> copyright violation.
>
>Not to mention a violation of Christian ethics (which he likely had to
>take a course in at Simpson).
Again, if he had permission to copy and modify pages from another
Christian source/ or non-Christian source, it's not illegal.
Some presume SOOOOO much!
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible,alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religio
n.christian.roman-catholic,free.christians
Subject: Re: Exposing Roman Catholcisim
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:29:24 -0700
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On 29 Jul 2006 19:29:13 -0700, "Dave" <horndw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:23:12 -0500, Mike I
>> <hope2basaint@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>> >On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 12:58:39 GMT, Dave Oldridge
>> ><doldridg@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >
>> >>"Bible John" <john.doggett@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>> >>news:1154151057_9009@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >>
>> >>> As the director of a national growing web ministry that is focused
on
>> >>> providing resources for bible education, we have not had the time
to
>> >>> hunt out every false teacher and belief system (unlike some
>> >>> apologetics centered ministries) such as Deception in the Church,
>> >>> Biblical Discernment Ministries, CRI and many others that only
focus
>> >>> on false teachers and belief systems.
>> >>>
>> >>> However just today in the mail Grace to You (one of CERMS most
trusted
>> >>> sources) has sent out a mailing and is offering a free CD or tape
that
>> >>> speaks about exposing the false doctrines of the Mary wor****ppers
and
>> >>> of Roman Catholicism. When we receive this CD we will listen to
it,
>> >>> and Lord willing provide a article on CERM's website in our
>> >>> apologetics section on Roman Catholicism.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'll also send out a post to these groups Lord willing on the
article
>> >>> update.
>> >>>
>> >>> So stay tuned. I know many of you struggle with this, and
certainly
>> >>> the Roman Catholic Church has more more influence than some little
>> >>> cult like the Way International, OneNess Pentecostalism, Christian
>> >>> Scientism, or such.
>> >>
>> >>And probably more than your own heretical cult. Which may explain
your
>> >>bigotry.
>> >>
>> >>Do you know of the Nicene Creed? Do you believe what it says? Do
you
>> >>think it outlines what a Christian must believe or do you think
something
>> >>should be added?
>> >
>> >I have to laugh out Loud, John, you state out right that you are
going
>> >to source that is anti-Catholic and anti-Marian and you are going to
>> >write a re****t or paper if you like, on source that holds views that
>> >agree with you. Not very scholarly of you is it.
>>
>> I had to laugh out loud, Mike!
>
>No doubt this is another phrase that Weatherly will claim is original
>with him...
>
>> You demand of John Wolf things you would refuse to do yourself!
>>
>> BJ is simply saying that he isn't going to go to the BOTHER of
>> EXTENSIVE original research when he already knows that Dr John
>> MacArthur is an EXPERT and AUTHORITY (recognized worldwide) on the
>> subject under discussion. "Roman Catholicism".
>
>Whether MacArthur is, indeed, an expert, or he is considered such
>because Wolf or Weatherly happen to agree with his conclusions, the
>issue of anti-Catholic bigotry in the "research" materials used by Wolf
>is a reasonable issue to approach.
And PLEASE tell us all what in HECK makes YOU an "expert" on ANY
Christian topic?
YOU A R E N ' T !!
You remain an mindless, knee-jerk, idiotic demoniac!
And a dumb one!
tsk
I know ONE person who thinks you are clever!
>
>> If BJ or I were to confront YOU on a dozen Roman Catholic issues,
>> would you spend days or WEEKS researching it from scratch, or would
>> you more likely turn to a dozen sources YOU happen to know have
>> already done the research?
>
>Weatherly makes the mistaken assumption that "Mike" would engage in the
>same sort of "research" that he and Wolf, neither of whom are practiced
>in good research,
How in HELL would YOU know if I know how to do research or not,
you PATHOLOGICAL LIAR!
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible,alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religio
n.christian.roman-catholic,free.christians
Subject: Re: Exposing Roman Catholcisim
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:26:55 -0700
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On 29 Jul 2006 19:18:51 -0700, "Dave" <horndw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w wrote:
>
>[Snip]
>
>> Some believe in and recite the Nicene Creed, some believe in and
>> recite the Apostle's Creed.
>>
>> Since neither is found in the Bible, and since both contain false
>> teaching-- such as a teaching of the "ever-virgin Mary", many of us
>> REJECT both.
>
>Of course, there are quite a few things in the Bible,
You really do post merely for the sake of seeing your "name" on the
Internet, don't you?
;-)
I have SERIOUS doubts if you've ever read more than 10 verses of the
Bible!
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
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Subject: Re: Exposing Roman Catholcisim
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:24:55 -0700
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On 29 Jul 2006 19:31:59 -0700, "Dave" <horndw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On 29 Jul 2006 18:05:34 -0700, "Dave" <horndw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>> >Bible John wrote:
>> >> Horn do you ever have anything nice to say?
>> >
>> >Wolf continues to whine, but he seems to have nothing to say about
the
>> >questions that I asked and the challenges that were presented. Wolf
>> >whimpers when he doesn't get to just say his piece without challenge.
>>
>> Question remains, if he irritates you so, why do you continue to read
>> his posts?
>>
>> Must be your sado-masochism! (meaning you're a masochist)
>
>Weatherly once again gets it all wrong
Dave,
tsk tsk
snip
john w
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christia
n.biblestudy,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,free.christians
Subject: Re: Exposing Roman Catholcisim
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:23:57 -0700
Message-ID: <bf9oc2t2tfb2npmphd67vp4hth46togk9h@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On 29 Jul 2006 19:36:04 -0700, "Dave" <horndw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On 29 Jul 2006 17:10:45 -0700, "Dave" <horndw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>> >Bible John wrote:
>> >> As the director of a national growing web ministry...
>> >
>> >Bwah hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
>> >
>> >> ...that is focused on providing resources for bible
>> >> education...
>> >
>> >Is anyone aware of any organization that has used Wolf's "resources?"
>> >The fact is that even the basic design of the web site isn't very
>> >original.
>>
>> Um.... explain now why it must be "unique"?
>>
>> Are you ALWAYS this STUPID and this ANTAGONISTIC, or only in here?
>
>So let me see if I have this right:
This should be REALLY good!
You RARELY get ANYTHING Right. (your mind-numbing insanity is
archived)
Weatherly has fled every challenge
>I have put to him,
lol!
Rotfl!!
I'm laughing so hard, I'm about to crack RIBS here!
David, you continue to be a legend in the mind of your dead frog.
john w
snip
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christia
n.biblestudy,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,free.christians
Subject: Re: Exposing Roman Catholcisim
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:21:38 -0700
Message-ID: <3a9oc2dv5e5jgmhf1rc6oibpm84ds9bqnj@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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On 29 Jul 2006 19:34:10 -0700, "Dave" <horndw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 17:20:49 -0700, "Bible John"
>> <john.doggett@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>> >Horn do you ever have anything nice to say? If not then why are you
here?
>> >Jason got tired of you and so am I.
>>
>> John, why on EARTH do you waste your time and energy on such?
>> Have you not YET figured out that Dave Horn is an ATTENTION
>> WHORE like Phar Lap and others?
>
>PKB.
Aw! Now THAT just plain wasn't nice!
:-(
At LEAST, I CLAIM to be one of the people this group was set up for
"Christian."
Last I heard, you have made no such claim.
retard!
>
>> He is here for ONE purpose: To waste your time, your energy, and to
>> antagonize you!
>>
>> And--no-- he NEVER has anything good to say!
>>
>> (he's likely a demoniac, whereas YOU are simply psychotic)
>
>Of course, none of these things are true.
Of COURSE they are true!
Otherwise, prove you aren't a demoniac!
Point made!
Asked and answered.
>Weatherly is a liar.
And THAT was one of your pathological lies
you pathological liar!
Attention SLUT!
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.bush,alt.politics,alt.politics,alt.christnet,alt.religion.ch
ristian.baptist
Subject: Re: Bush and Blair See An Op****tunity for Sweeping Mideast
Change
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:18:31 -0700
Message-ID: <g29oc2ph7uoijailquou5iulmig6hlmdec@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:45:20 -0500, CB <country2000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:26:11 -0700, john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>x-no-archive: yes
>>On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:46:38 -0500, CB <country2000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>>article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>>author
>>>On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:09:16 -0700, john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
>>>
>>>>x-no-archive: yes
>>>>On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:47:25 GMT, John Wesley Asquith
>>>><johnasquith6@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>>>>article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>>>>author
>>>>>Sure, you bet. Just like they saw an op****tunity for sweeping
regime
>>>>>change in Afghanistan, Iraq and are now focusing on Iran and Syria.
>>>>>Not to mention the mess they've got with North Korea and Pakistan.
>>>>>
>>>>>Bush should have been impeached long ago for the felonies he has
>>>>>committed
>>>>
>>>>chuckle.
>>>>
>>>> So when are you going to discuss Clinton's TREASON?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, TREASON.
>>>>
>>>>He OPENLY accepted ILLEGAL campaign contributions from two of our
>>>>nation's mortal ENEMIES, North Korea and Red China! (we got it on
>>>>videotape, remember?) The ONLY thing that kept Clinton and AlGore
out
>>>>of federal prison was one of the most LEFT wing Congresses in US
>>>>history!
>>>>
>>>
>>>slick willy was impeahed.
>>
>>What does "impeahed" mean?
>
>It means you're a moron for nit picking posts.
Wow!
All that shared rhetoric,
so many interesting observations (and from a DC brat)
and all you found worthy to comment on was
to nit my nit!
And you have corrected ME more than once, moron!
I was merely in a very funny way returning the favor!
(if you can put me down at every op****tunity, I can return same
occasionally, and I will)
You're simply another infantile personality who likes to lash out but
who can't handle it when someone slugs you back!
;-)
Oh! Almost forgot!
And NOW, you can go have ***ual intercourse with yourself!
>>
>>And while sick willy WAS "impeached" theoretically, ALL possible
>>charges were not filed. HE was guilty of TREASON-- as I stated-- and
>>yet he was never charged by the Left-dominated Congress of his day!
>>
>>;-)
>>
>>"but nice try" (not really, and we'll call that my lie for the day)
>>
>>And-- as I said -- I have just been reading a Wa****ngton / WJC expose
>>by a DC insider who reminded all who read his book that Clinton was
>>ORDERED by Congress (something they get to do) to turn over THOUSANDS
>>of documents. At least 150 of those documents have STILL not been
>>surrendered, 10 YEARS later!
>>
>>While Jimmy Carter will likely (so far) go down in history as
>>America's most incompetent Prez ever, WJC so far is the record holder
>>as America's most CORRUPT Prez ever, perhaps being bumped to a lower
>>ranking by
>>
>>either
>>
>>LBJ
>>
>>or JFK
>>
>>(all 3 being DEMOCRATS)
>>
>>Which only shows to go that when it comes to
>>
>>out-and-out political ABUSES
>>
>>and RANK corruption,
>>
>>"there's STILL nothing like a Democrat"!!
>>
>>
>>
>>>The cowards in Congress decided not to boot him.
>>>
>>>>;-)
>>>>
>>>>But go ahead and PRETEND to be outraged!
>>>>
>>>>Did you remember that Clinton was ORDERED by Congress (the same
>>>>assembly that IMPEACHED Nixon, you may recall) to turn over crucial
>>>>documents (some 100 documents REMAIN MISSING TO THIS DAY!)
>>>>
>>>>Why was Clinton NEVER IMPEACHED FOR CONTEMPT OF CONGRESS, a FELONY
>>>>that REQUIRES IMPEACHMENT?
>>>>
>>>>I think some are too quick to impeach Republicans for SNEEZING, and
>>>>too eager to dismiss Presidential ABUSES if the Prez happens to be a
>>>>Lefty.
>>>>
>>>>Clinton also said that the Executive Order had been SEVERELY abused
by
>>>>his predecessors (read Reagan and George Bush the I), Clinton
"doesn't
>>>>believe in Executive Orders, and would not issue ANY"), and before he
>>>>left office, the LIAR had written more Executive Orders than Reagan
>>>>and George Bush COMBINED!
>>>>
>>>>;-)
>>>>
>>>>Kindly restrict this political crap to the political groups!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (yes, he has violated entrenched federal law and abused the
>>>>>Constitution galore). Except for the Republican goons being in
power
>>>>>and aligned with the right-wing-religious-wackos he would have been
>>>>>impeached too. Just wait until November. Things will change.
>>>>>
>>>>>And once Bush would be impeached, Blair would be booted out by his
own
>>>>>party in Parliament. Sad us, we have to wait for the op****tunity
that
>>>>>comes only once each 4 years. Alas!
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Acts 26:8 "Why is it considered incredible among you
>>>people if God does raise the dead?
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>Acts 26:8 "Why is it considered incredible among you
>people if God does raise the dead?
>
>
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From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: Re: Deacons and elders
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:12:43 -0700
Message-ID: <5q8oc2t1srre4usi6nseooroh2t2hmi1b2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 12:36:33 +1000, Shasta@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Bree)
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>In article <fv2oc2hh9edvtttbhlsi7147u9h2ci58pg@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, john w
><wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> My mom got a call (or came back from the doctor/ don't recall now)
>> that her biopsy had come back, and she had terminal cancer. "She was
>> being consumed."
>>
>
>> She went into surgery the next day ("to see if they could do
>> ANYTHING") and there was no TRACE of cancer!
>>
>>
>
>So you sued the first doctor
Same doctor, stupid.
The biopsy was cancerous. There was no mistake. And as they had taken
SEVERAL samples (several lumps), they determined it was cancer, and it
was inoperable.
And you are lower than pond scum for making jokes about people's
serious illnesses.
but, you knew that!
john w
|
