>> >> >> he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
>> >> >> 4 These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth
when
>they
>> >> >> were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and
the
>> >> >> heavens,
>> >> >
>> >> >Nothing about man being given the Sabbath in those verses. God
rested
>> >then,
>> >> >but it says nothing about man.
>> >> >
>> >> >> Exd 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
>> >> >> :9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
>> >> >> 10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in
it]
>> >> >> thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter,
thy
>> >> >> manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy
stranger
>that
>> >> >> [is] within thy gates:
>> >> >> 11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea,
and
>all
>> >> >> that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the
LORD
>> >> >> blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
>> >> >
>> >> >Nothing about man being given the Sabbath in those verses.
>> >> >
>> >> >> Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven,
having
>the
>> >> >> everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth,
and
>to
>> >> >> every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
>> >> >> 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for
the
>> >> >> hour of his judgment is come: and wor****p him that made heaven,
and
>> >> >> earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
>> >> >
>> >> >Nothing about man being given the Sabbath in those verses.
>> >> >
>> >> >> Yes the Sabbath was made for man and the Lord Jesus made both.
>> >> >
>> >> >Nobody is denying that.
>> >>
>> >> I am denying it. Jesus didn't make the Sabbath,
>> >
>> >Who made the Sabbath then, if not God?
>>
>> ????????????????????????????????
>>
>> You just changed the subject!
>
>Nope. Cindy said Jesus made the Sabbath.
Cindy is wrong.
You said he didn't.
That is correct. Jesus didn't create Sabbath.
Since Jesus
>is God, he must have.
Not so. And if you believe that, you have a fundamental
misunderstanding of The Trinity.
There is no "Jesus" mentioned in the Trinity.
The Trinity consists of "The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit."
You may use "Jesus" interchangeably with "The Son", but you are
incorrect.
The MAN "Jesus" was born in the 1st C. He was merely the PHYSICAL
HOUSE that contained the Son of God.
The SON created the Sabbath in the beginning. Jesus was not there at
the time.
It may seem like a PETTY distinction to some, but-- nevertheless--
Jesus was NOT involved in creating Sabbath.
The Son was.
>
>> Are you yet ANOTHER Roman Catholic (no shock) who doesn't know the
>> difference between God and Jesus ?
>
>Does JW stand for Jehovah's Witness? Prior to his incarnation, Jesus
was
>God the Son. (During and after as well.)
Prior to His incarnation, there was no Jesus. "Jesus" was the name
given to INcarnate God.
Before he took on FLESH, there was no "Jesus".
>
>> sheesh!
>>
>> God created Sabbath, and gave it to the Jews.
>> Ex 31:16-17
>>
>> Sabbath is for the JEWS.
>>
>> Jesus did NOT create Sabbath.
>
>God the Son did. Along with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
>
>> >
>> >> and if either of you
>> >> actually knew the Old Testament (I realize that Roman Catholics are
>> >> not Bible readers...)
>> >
>> >Nor are you.
>>
>> I am betting I've read it through more times than you have!
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>>
>> >
>> >> Ex 31 says very clearly that Sabbath was made FOR THE JEWS.
>> >
>> >Correct.
>>
>> I am not a Jew.
>
>I haven't looked.
>
>God bless,
>Stephen
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=500 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=0 Received=
20060726230018
Xref: localhost alt.atheism:64204 alt.politics:1956
alt.religion.christian.adventist:3392
alt.religion.christian.baptist:41268 alt.religion.christian.roman-
catholic:15882
Path: authen.yellow.readfreenews.net!green.octanews.net!news-
out.octanews.net!mauve.octanews.net!66.150.105.54.MISMATCH!newsfeed-
east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!statler.nntpserver.com!
feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-04.inet.qwest.net!news.qwest.net!not-for-
mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.politics,alt.religion.christian.adventist,alt.religion.christian.bapt
ist,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: The New Testament Has No Authority Of Its Own Without The
Tradition Of The Church
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:59:32 -0700
Message-ID: <bdegc2djmsd1mb54sgdlv89cr282s9gjot@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <58tpb293rj9c5c81h4ck7mlvp6haihllsl@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1153599334.020883.124880@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1ua5c2dvgja9rfiifjrgu7gh4psennpf1m@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153680800.071536.27560
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <ftldc2homji9nhnd7vvilgf7c4aic6jhct@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153963226.725636.140850@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 59
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: 69cbcc2e.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=K[[7cQeMi;=2CP^m4A2]Y2F85SKJoGf>4RGW8hY656^2gRiX5Ran0@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>8P@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
authen.yellow.readfreenews.net alt.politics:2957146
alt.religion.christian.adventist:172828
alt.religion.christian.baptist:930611 alt.religion.christian.roman-
catholic:1391717 alt.atheism:4416713
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
x-no-archive: yes
On 26 Jul 2006 18:20:26 -0700, "codebreaker@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"
<Codebreaker@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>john w wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On 23 Jul 2006 11:53:20 -0700, Codebreaker@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>> copyright 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of
>> this article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of
>> the author
>> >
>> >Susan Williams wrote:
>> >> On 22 Jul 2006 13:15:34 -0700, "Codebreaker@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> Not-Easily-Duped" <Codebreaker@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > It is foolish of you to use the New Testament to try to attack
the
>> >> >Catholic Church.
>>
>> Ummmmmm....
>>
>> Last I looked, the Roman Catholic group is
>>
>> <---------------------
>>
>> that way!
>
>
> To my knowledge, the doctrines that Islam criticized is those of the
>Catholic Church
> and here, by Catholic Church I also mean The Greek orthodoxy.
Now I am REALLY confused (not really, it's a metaphor).
Who made the Muslims the authorities on genuine Christianity?
?????
I follow the same Christianity Paul and Peter and Tim and Mark and
John (my namesake) followed.
The Christianity of the New Testament, which is a FAR cry from "Roman"
or "Greek" Catholicism.
And predates both.
;-)
john w
And STILL, the Roman Catholic Group went
< --------------------------
That way!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=300 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=-200 Received=
20060726225704
Xref: localhost alt.atheism:64203 alt.politics:1955
alt.religion.christian.adventist:3391
alt.religion.christian.baptist:41266 alt.religion.christian.roman-
catholic:15880
Path: free.teranews.com!sam.nntpserver.com!be4.nntpserver.com!
statler.nntpserver.com!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-04.inet.qwest.net!
news.qwest.net!not-for-mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.atheism,alt.politics,alt.religion.christian.adventist,alt.religion.ch
ristian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
Subject: Re: The New Testament Has No Authority Of Its Own Without The
Tradition Of The Church
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:56:30 -0700
Message-ID: <p9egc21dlpsdkbfbdnvult4kqs3atp9b7v@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <58tpb293rj9c5c81h4ck7mlvp6haihllsl@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1153599334.020883.124880@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1ua5c2dvgja9rfiifjrgu7gh4psennpf1m@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153680800.071536.27560
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <ftldc2homji9nhnd7vvilgf7c4aic6jhct@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <at-dnY8sTe4RalvZnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<g89fc2hjue7tiljd80hv8kj07bridj7r80@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<y6WdnZGqIc2XYFrZnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 73
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: 69cbcc2e.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=FL5g6Z^iFIc5M6ZoYEXMklF85SKJoGf>dRGW8hY656^bgRiX5Ran0@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
free.teranews.com alt.atheism:4181907 alt.politics:3914697
alt.religion.christian.adventist:192640
alt.religion.christian.baptist:1034732 alt.religion.christian.roman-
catholic:1384628
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:24:27 +0200, "Stephen Korsman"
<skorsman@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>"john w" <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>news:g89fc2hjue7tiljd80hv8kj07bridj7r80@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:01:57 +0200, "Stephen Korsman"
>> <skorsman@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> copyright 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of
>> this article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of
>> the author
>> >
>> >"john w" <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> >news:ftldc2homji9nhnd7vvilgf7c4aic6jhct@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> x-no-archive: yes
>> >> On 23 Jul 2006 11:53:20 -0700, Codebreaker@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>> >> copyright 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of
>> >> this article may be used elsewhere without express written consent
of
>> >> the author
>> >> >
>> >> >Susan Williams wrote:
>> >> >> On 22 Jul 2006 13:15:34 -0700, "Codebreaker@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> >> Not-Easily-Duped" <Codebreaker@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > It is foolish of you to use the New Testament to try to attack
the
>> >> >> >Catholic Church.
>> >>
>> >> Ummmmmm....
>> >>
>> >> Last I looked, the Roman Catholic group is
>> >>
>> >> <---------------------
>> >>
>> >> that way!
>> >>
>> >> :-)
>> >>
>> >> john w
>> >
>> >Stay in the Baptist group, John. You can make up biblical evidence
from
>> >there.
>>
>> Last I looked, the Roman Catholic group is
>>
>> <---------------------
>>
>> that way!
>>
>> I think you continue to be lost, Steve!
>>
>> Kindly stop cross-posting your feces to the Baptist group!
>
>www.ratemypoo.com
>
>God bless,
>Stephen
tsk tsk
The Roman Catholic group CONTINUES to be
<-------------------------------------
that way!
:-(
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=500 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=0 Received=
20060726225651
Xref: localhost alt.christnet.public:3033
alt.religion.christian.baptist:41264 free.christians:6207
Path: authen.yellow.readfreenews.net!green.octanews.net!news-
out.octanews.net!news.glorb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-
04.inet.qwest.net!news.qwest.net!not-for-mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.baptist,free.christians
Subject: Re: Uncle Davey your comments
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:54:45 -0700
Message-ID: <oidgc2dqsfpknpmr3g826qb1tcfscm62c3@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <1153783489_110211@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<ugmac29fv9ti58cpk43ntfe6gried1i5nk@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153800233_111661
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <a87bc2libdt7fuq5u48ee8ismsj0npmpda@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1153805052_112017@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<ikkdc2t937gfaif04988fm55h7psqpbbkc@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153885500.047653.25530
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <6i7fc25l41tr0ta8l3tajk7i18mpj3r1hl@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153963826.561212.191720@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 193
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: 69cbcc2e.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=kbkhHUdO;FTmP\CZ7oX>^_F85SKJoGf>TRGW8hY656^RgRiX5Ran0@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
authen.yellow.readfreenews.net alt.christnet.public:224003
alt.religion.christian.baptist:930605 free.christians:97400
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
x-no-archive: yes
On 26 Jul 2006 18:30:26 -0700, "Dave" <horndw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On 25 Jul 2006 20:45:00 -0700, "Dave" <horndw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> copyright 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of
>> this article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of
>> the author
>> >john w wrote:
>> >> x-no-archive: yes
>> >> On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:38:25 -0700, "Bible John"
>> >> <john.doggett@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >> copyright 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of
>> >> this article may be used elsewhere without express written consent
of
>> >> the author
>> >> >"Bible Bob" <biblebob@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> >> >news:a87bc2libdt7fuq5u48ee8ismsj0npmpda@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You don't get to decide who is saved. God does.
>> >> >
>> >> >Someone who rejects Jesus Christ (as you do) is not saved.
>> >> >
>> >> >Read the bible.
>> >>
>> >> BJ, stop typing "Bible" lower case!
>> >>
>> >> It is insulting, and it is blasphemous!
>> >
>> >I own seven translations of the Bible, and I've never seen any
>> >Scripture that claims that it is "blasphemous" to refer to the Bible
>> >using a lower case "b." I'd ask Weatherly to show us, but we all
know
>> >what kind of reaction *that* would get...
>>
>> I could / would answer that.
>
>...Weatherly boasts, and then *doesn't* answer it...
>
>> However, "we all know" that you really didn't expect or
>> want an answer, now did you?
>
>Weatherly gets it half right. If I didn't *want* to see at least an
>attempt at an answer, I wouldn't bother to type the question. That I
>didn't expect to see an answer is certainly correct, and Weatherly, in
>this message fulfilled my expectations.
>
>> You truly don't want answers, since you prefer to supply
>> them all yourself, don't you!
>
>There goes hypocritical Weatherly, presuming to read minds, again.
Not at all, ****forbrains. I merely observe and remark on your OBVIOUS
behavior/misbehavior.
Which AGAIN makes you the WORST of pathological liars. (no news
there)
You have REPEATEDLY "asked me questions" (as you have done to others),
and then "supplied the answers" yourself.
>
>> However, for the benefit of the group (this HAS been asked and
>> answered any number of times, but since you don't bother to follow the
>> threads (you're more of a harasser)...
>
>Actually, I follow what threads that I can or care to,
Like I said, ****forbrains, you don't READ my posts; you just jump in
when you find it amuses you and make utterly asinine remarks!
True infantile behavior (thinking you're cute/ you're not)
If you actually bothered to READ posts (follow threads), you would
know a LOT more, and you would likely SAY a WHOLE lot less!
As it is, you merely come across as an uneducated, unread, buffoon.
(but, I'm betting you've heard that a million times, so you already
know)
;-)
just as anyone
>else would do. And I'm not a "harasser," I'm an exposer of phonies
>like Weatherly.
Lie. Just because I don't live down to your standards of sewer
crawling, does not make me a phony.
;-)
And if my posts bother you so much, ****forbrains,
don't read them!
;-)
See how easy that was?
>
>> We are to have respect for the Bible.
>>
>> It is common good rules of grammar to Capitalize proper
>> nouns AND names.
>>
>> It has been the tradition / as well as good English to capicalize...
>
>"Capitalize."
Congratulations! My spell checker was turned off.
( ya GOT me! You truly should be content with these tiny victories. I
am betting I just made your whole day! ;-) )
>
>> ...proper names, including the Bible, for CENTURIES.
>
>All very basic stuff (with some provisions for the first one), but
>violation of any or all of these precepts does not constitute
>"blasphemy" by any Christian doctrine of which I'm aware. So far...
"That you're aware of."
And last I heard, you are neither a Christian, nor any sort of
authority on Christianity or the Bible ( I note you rarely if ever
quote it, but you LOVE to tell us all what it says)
Phony!
>
>Weatherly
>
>isn't
>
>answering
>
>the
>
>question...
****forbrains hasn't asked any relevant questions.
(that's you, Dave)
>
>> John Wolf is a NOTORIOUS REBEL who HATES good
>> grammar-- and OPENLY says so.
>
>This is a lie. I have no sympathy for Wolf, but I'll lay odds that
>Weatherly would be hard-pressed to provide even a single reference to a
>post by Wolf in which Wolf "OPENLY" stated that he "HATES good
>grammar."
Well, if you actually RESEARCHED it, ****forbrains, you'd find those
quotes in this group within the past few months.
I hardly find you worthy of MY doing any research.
AGAIN, you spout when you don't know what the hell you're talking
about!
(perhaps that's why your nickname is "****forbrains.)
Because you use your brain so little, it has atrophied to the size of
an atom, and it now stinks like...
>
>> He capitalizes what he chooses to capitalize.
>>
>> His failure to capitalize the word "Bible", is VERY deliberate, and is
>> therefore, an OPEN declaration of disrespect.
>
>If it's disrespect, of what is it disrespect?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I could tell you 2 + 2 and you would not have the gray matter to come
up with 4.
And I am not wiling to play your continuing infantile games.
You are an attention whore.
And you have now MORE than used up your 2 minutes without you having
said one single intelligent thing.
same old
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=500 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=0 Received=
20060726224356
Xref: localhost alt.christnet.public:3030
alt.religion.christian.baptist:41259 free.christians:6204
Path: authen.yellow.readfreenews.net!green.octanews.net!news-
out.octanews.net!news.glorb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-
02.inet.qwest.net!news.qwest.net!not-for-mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.baptist,free.christians
Subject: Re: Uncle Davey your comments
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:41:50 -0700
Message-ID: <8bdgc2h7mhrrgl419n5kcm008o4mj9ehqd@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <1153805052_112017@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<ikkdc2t937gfaif04988fm55h7psqpbbkc@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153885500.047653.25530
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153893924_6111@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1153895703.027116.219170@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1153923045.429001.269960@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1153936749.740973.307070@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<gdffc21vk9dj8lpvvrp0pn7akbio2s67o2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153962331.695918.147210@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 83
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: 69cbcc2e.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=\6ab<1V]V9m=od2dnb<;TiF85SKJoGf>d6=Z1LFII]En?
0m@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>3c
X-Complaints-To: abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
authen.yellow.readfreenews.net alt.christnet.public:224000
alt.religion.christian.baptist:930600 free.christians:97397
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
x-no-archive: yes
On 26 Jul 2006 18:05:31 -0700, "Dave" <horndw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On 26 Jul 2006 10:59:09 -0700, "Hoopdeedoosoever"
>> <ontheskagit@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>> >
>> >Dave wrote:
>> >> Haven't figured this out, yet, eh?
>> >
>> >No, I haven't.
>> >
>> >I don't understand why anyone who claims to be a born-again Christian
>> >and has the Holy Spirit dwelling within them would continually defy
>> >things involving the Word of God. The book itself is one thing, and
>> >should not be wor****pped (refusing to capitalize 'Bible' is not
>> >blasphemous, and is really not as big a deal as some here think)
>>
>> The point some (you) are missing is NOT the mere failure/ refusal to
>> capitalize "Bible"; the point IS the ATTITUDE behind the REFUSAL.
>>
>> BJ has been told REPEATEDLY that he is offending others!
>
>And BJ is to pay attention to that, even when Weatherly does not.
>
>Of course, there's nothing
>
>requiring
>
>Weatherly
>
>to
>
>read
>
>BJ's
>
>posts!
>
>But he does...
I don't read them all!
;-)
And many times, I read them and don't make any comment!
;-)
You should try not reading MY posts! Or reading them and keeping your
pitiful putdowns to yourself! (they're infantile and tinged with
obvious envy)
>
>> REPEATEDLY!
>
>Yeah...like it says.
>
>> I am NOT the first person to bring it up!
>>
>> I have been rebuked repeatedly and had it pointed out to me that
>>
>> "10 Christians have told you that you're _______ing! Stop doing
>> that!"
>
>So now Weatherly wants to whine
AGAIN, Dave, who is holding the gun to your head and FORCING you to
read my posts and make your infantile noises?
(nobody)
So, once again, now that you have AGAIN showed yourself to have
NOTHING to say, I have snipped [ nothing ]
snipped nothing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=500 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=0 Received=
20060726224034
Xref: localhost alt.christnet.public:3029
alt.religion.christian.baptist:41257 free.christians:6203
Path: dp-news.maxwell.syr.edu!spool.maxwell.syr.edu!news-
spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!postnews.google.com!
news4.google.com!news.glorb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-
02.inet.qwest.net!news.qwest.net!not-for-mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.baptist,free.christians
Subject: Re: Uncle Davey your comments
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:38:29 -0700
Message-ID: <28dgc293h1833e84aq5rr7q7cahg2bomoi@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <ugmac29fv9ti58cpk43ntfe6gried1i5nk@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153800233_
111661@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <a87bc2libdt7fuq5u48ee8ismsj0npmpda@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1153805052_112017@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<ikkdc2t937gfaif04988fm55h7psqpbbkc@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153885500.047653.25530
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153893924_6111@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1153894622.888968.205070@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<j88fc2phpe00h0ppcdi75btudclghcopan@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153962410.074433.280690
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 46
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: 69cbcc2e.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=P0A89]Xn?UWIeBAO@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>T6=Z1LFII]E^?
0m@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>3S
X-Complaints-To: abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
dp-news.maxwell.syr.edu alt.christnet.public:183516
alt.religion.christian.baptist:844716
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
x-no-archive: yes
On 26 Jul 2006 18:06:50 -0700, "Dave" <horndw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>john w wrote:
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On 25 Jul 2006 23:17:03 -0700, "Dave" <horndw@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> copyright 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of
>> this article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of
>> the author
>> >Bible John wrote:
>> >> For the fruits of the spirit are (Gal 5:22ff)
>> >>
>> >> Love
>> >> Joy
>> >> peace
>> >> Patience
>> >> KINDNESS
>> >> Gentleness
>> >> Goodness
>> >> Self Control
>> >> Faithfulness
>> >
>> >Interesting...Wolf doesn't have any of these "fruits."
>> >
>> >So how can he expect to run a ministry?
>>
>> Congradulations! Mark your calendars everyone!
>>
>> Dave and I agree on something!
>
>Weatherly is one of the reasons people remember the old adage, "the sun
>****nes on even a dog's ass, once in a while." But the fact is that we
>don't see any of those traits in Weatherly, either, so it's best that
>he refrain from gloating.
If only you were 1/1000th the person you think you are, Dave!
But-- know what! I know ONE person who thinks you're wonderful!
;-)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=500 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=0 Received=
20060726223721
Xref: localhost alt.bible:7308 alt.bible.prophecy:734
alt.christnet.public:3028 alt.religion.christian.baptist:41256
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:2601 free.christians:6202
Path: authen.yellow.readfreenews.net!green.octanews.net!news-
out.octanews.net!news.glorb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-
02.inet.qwest.net!news.qwest.net!not-for-mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.
baptist,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,free.christians
Subject: Re: Is the gift of Tongues for the church today?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:35:37 -0700
Message-ID: <2hcgc2ljonnpc916eigm56qemhlggbgocs@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <1153783837_110217@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<96adneHxWtEWCljZnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<bvjdc2he026mvk1g2hn9udi295k6crrq4i@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <At-dnY5U3IlQSFrZnZ2dnUVZ_v-
dnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 227
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: 69cbcc2e.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=81OaI4=4j^Q@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>AiTF85SKJoGf>T6=Z1LFII]E^?
0m@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>3S
X-Complaints-To: abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
authen.yellow.readfreenews.net alt.bible:1227335
alt.bible.prophecy:691376 alt.christnet.public:223998
alt.religion.christian.baptist:930597
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:440662 free.christians:97395
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:51:24 -0400, "Sugien" <dinosoft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>"john w" <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>news:bvjdc2he026mvk1g2hn9udi295k6crrq4i@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 00:01:13 -0400, "Sugien" <dinosoft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> wrote:
>> copyright 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of
>> this article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of
>> the author
>>>
>>>"Bible John" <john.doggett@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>news:1153783837_110217@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> http://www.cerm.info/bible_studies/Theological/sign_gifts.htm
>>>>
>>>> 8. Tongues
>>>> Tongues Refer to Earthly Languages
>>>> The was a supernatural ability to speak an earthly foreign language
>>>> without special training. Tongues comes from the word glossa, so the
>>>> word
>>>> glossalalia means "to speak in tongues." The word tongues (glossa),
when
>>>> used in the New Testament, either refers to the physical tongue and
its
>>>> basic meaning or to the language that the tongue speaks.
>>>>
>>>> To begin a study of tongues, get a concordance and look up the word
>>>> tongue
>>>> (glossa), and look at all the places it is used and how it is used.
In
>>>> the
>>>> following references (not a complete list) every time the word
tongue
>>>> (glossa) is used, it always refers to an earthly foreign language:
>>>> Revelation 5:9; 7:9; 10:11; 11:9.
>>>> Law of First Mention
>>>> In hermeneutics (the study of interpreting the Scripture), there is
a
>>>> Law
>>>> of First Mention which simply refers to the fact that the first
mention
>>>> of
>>>> an area, a fact or a word, becomes a pattern for subsequent uses of
that
>>>> word or expression or phenomenon.
>>>>
>>>> The first mention of speaking in tongues in the Bible is found in
Acts
>>>> 2:4: "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to
speak
>>>> with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance." Other
>>>> "tongues" is the Greek word glossa. All the different people present
are
>>>> listed in verses 9 and 10. These various groups of people are saying
>>>> that
>>>> they hear what is being said in their own language (verse 11).
>>>>
>>>> Tongues an earthly language is further substantiated in Acts 2:6,
"And
>>>> when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were
>>>> bewildered, because they were each one hearing them speak in his own
>>>> language." The Greek word used here for language is "dialect," but
>>>> glossa
>>>> and dialect are used interchangeably so glossa has to mean an
earthly
>>>> language. (Dialect is also used in verse 8.)
>>>>
>>>> The gift of tongues was Spirit-motivated speech (Acts 2:4) in a
>>>> particular
>>>> language as we have already established. Now it would be hard to
believe
>>>> that the Spirit today is motivating believers to speak in babblings
or
>>>> ecstatic speech, because that is contrary to what God did when He
first
>>>> gave this ability. Unless there is good reason to think that God
changed
>>>> this particular ability and gift, we have to assume that the gift of
>>>> tongues will be the same throughout the entire Bible.
>>>> Gift of Tongues Was a Sign to Unbelievers and a Sign of Judgment to
>>>> Israel
>>>> "So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe, but to
>>>> unbelievers" (1 Cor. 14:22).
>>
>> snip
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> * This re****t has been adapted from a booklet by the same name, by
Gil
>>>> Rugh, Senior Pastor, Indian Hills Community Church, Lincoln, NE
68510.
>>>> This booklet in its entirety, as well as other booklets on other
topics
>>>> of
>>>> interest by Gil Rugh, may be downloaded in "PDF" format from the .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>The miracle of the speaking of tongues was *not* in the speaking; but
in
>>>the
>>>*hearing* for each heard them speak in their native tongue. In other
>>>words,
>>>when they said the *one* word "hello" if there were 10 deferent
speaking
>>>people there *each* would hear that *single* word in *his* language.
they
>>>didn't stop and interpret everything said into several languages.
They
>>>said
>>>what they said *one* time and all people of different languages heard
at
>>>the
>>>exact *same time* it being said in their language. To put it into
today's
>>>references, it would be like someone at the United Nations speaking at
the
>>>podium and all the different country's representatives there having
the
>>>ear
>>>cups on and the translators speaking to them in their language. The
>>>speaker
>>>doesn't stop and speak in each language but everyone there hears them
in
>>>their own language. The difference being that today we use
translators;
>>>but
>>>back then the gift of tongs was that they could speak and no matter
how
>>>many
>>>different languages the crowd spoke each would hear each and every
word
>>>that
>>>was spoken in their own native tongue.
>>
>>
>> Correct.
>>
>> However, perhaps next time you could snip all the extra verbage before
>> you respond.
>>
>> And now I ask you a sincere qusetion.
>>
>> Since you OBVIOUSLY udnerstand the REAL meaning of the Acts 2 and
>> subsequent tongues experiences,
>>
>> how come when Benny Hinn and Rod Parsley go to South America or Brazil
>> or Moscow or Ho Chi Min City
>>
>> they require a translator?
>>
>> I thought both "preachers" speak in tongues?
>>
>It is not for me to say whether they proclaim to speak in tongues or
even
>the *unknown* tongue which is spoken of in the bible.
On the contrary! We ARE taught to know the gospel, so that we aren't
fooled! (Galatians 1)
If you don't know the Bible, if you don't know what the prophets,
Jesus, and the apostles taught, you're gonna get fooled!
(you've been fooled)
And there is no "unknown tongue". The reference to "unknown tongue" is
Paul's explanation of Acts 2, in which the gift that is given is that
the speaker is speaking a tongue
(German/French/Latin/Spanish/Czech/Latvian) that the speaker has not
learned.
The language is "unknown" to the one speaking it, but understood by
the person being spoken to.
Let me ask you a
>question,
Certainly.
What do you think the unknown tongue is?
See above. Unfortunately, this phrase "unknown tongue" has become a
catch phrase for all sorts of false teaching. If we don't understand
_______, then aren't we opening the door for Satan and 10,000 false
teachers to insert all sorts of false teachings?
Therefore, where we find "uncertain teaching" let's redouble our
efforts to dig deeper into SCRIPTURE and NOT "experience" to determine
what the BIBLE has to say, and NOT necessarily "Pastor Lester".
In the case of "tongues", teaching could not be more clear.
I am of the opinion that
>it could possibly be an angelic language;
#1 I am curious why you disrespect the Bible by typing it lower case.
#2 What is this "angelic language?" I see no "angelic language in the
Bible. I see one REFERENCE to an "tongue of angels", but it is a
metaphor, nothing more.
Why would God need a "special language" with which to communicate with
His angels? Is telepathy broken?
And if it's a "language of angels", why are YOU speaking it?
It's a "language of angels"; you are now admitting to using something
that doesn't belong to you!
You may as well tell me, "I'm driving my neighbor's Rolls Royce."
Why ?
Does your neighbor know?
but with the lack of more about it
>in the bible, I am left with only believing it could *possibly* be an
>angelic language.
AGAIN, you need to KNOW what you are talking about. Guessing is
Satan's territory!
It could also be a form of the pure language promised to
>be given to man in the end time.
Reference?
I have however *not* saying any of those
>you mention using said unknown tongue. What is you take on it?
See above.
I find my language (English/American) quite adequate. And since God
created all human languages, and knows all human languages (He seems
equally capable of speaking to my Chinese Christian friends in
Chinese)
I see no reason why God needs to "communicate in an unknown language"
or in a "heavenly language" or in a "language of angels."
You have given me no earthly reason, and you have given me no
scripture.
You have given me "seems to me."
Not acceptable.
What IS acceptable is, "it seems to God!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=500 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=0 Received=
20060726222738
Xref: localhost alt.bible:7307 alt.bible.prophecy:733
alt.christnet.public:3027 alt.religion.christian.baptist:41253
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:2599 free.christians:6201
Path: authen.yellow.readfreenews.net!green.octanews.net!news-
out.octanews.net!mauve.octanews.net!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-
01.inet.qwest.net!news.qwest.net!not-for-mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.
baptist,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,free.christians
Subject: Re: Is the gift of Tongues for the church today?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:24:28 -0700
Message-ID: <d0cgc2teh8nvls877479tmomrtnajdsbbn@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <1153783837_110217@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<96adneHxWtEWCljZnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <rvixg.11984$2v.11820
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <f4kdc2pjjajafb55tvtqvsubb0ur9hnm6h@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<d_mdnfbQK6T7RVrZnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 228
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: 69cbcc2e.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=gUC63a[]2C@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>D9hVGTAQ489D?
0m@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
authen.yellow.readfreenews.net alt.bible:1227333
alt.bible.prophecy:691375 alt.christnet.public:223997
alt.religion.christian.baptist:930594
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:440659 free.christians:97393
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:02:29 -0400, "Sugien" <dinosoft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>"john w" <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>news:f4kdc2pjjajafb55tvtqvsubb0ur9hnm6h@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 06:04:07 GMT, "Songzster" <beethoven@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> wrote:
>> copyright 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of
>> this article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of
>> the author
>>>
>>>"Sugien" <dinosoft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>news:96adneHxWtEWCljZnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>
>>>> "Bible John" <john.doggett@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>> news:1153783837_110217@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> http://www.cerm.info/bible_studies/Theological/sign_gifts.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> 8. Tongues
>>>>> Tongues Refer to Earthly Languages
>>>>> The was a supernatural ability to speak an earthly foreign language
>>>>> without special training. Tongues comes from the word glossa, so
the
>>>>> word
>>>>> glossalalia means "to speak in tongues." The word tongues (glossa),
>>>>> when
>>>>> used in the New Testament, either refers to the physical tongue and
its
>>>>> basic meaning or to the language that the tongue speaks.
>>>>>
>>>>> To begin a study of tongues, get a concordance and look up the word
>>>>> tongue (glossa), and look at all the places it is used and how it
is
>>>>> used. In the following references (not a complete list) every time
the
>>>>> word tongue (glossa) is used, it always refers to an earthly
foreign
>>>>> language: Revelation 5:9; 7:9; 10:11; 11:9.
>>>>> Law of First Mention
>>>>> In hermeneutics (the study of interpreting the Scripture), there is
a
>>>>> Law
>>>>> of First Mention which simply refers to the fact that the first
mention
>>>>> of an area, a fact or a word, becomes a pattern for subsequent uses
of
>>>>> that word or expression or phenomenon.
>>>>>
>>>>> The first mention of speaking in tongues in the Bible is found in
Acts
>>>>> 2:4: "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to
speak
>>>>> with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance." Other
>>>>> "tongues" is the Greek word glossa. All the different people
present
>>>>> are
>>>>> listed in verses 9 and 10. These various groups of people are
saying
>>>>> that
>>>>> they hear what is being said in their own language (verse 11).
>>>>>
>>>>> Tongues an earthly language is further substantiated in Acts 2:6,
"And
>>>>> when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were
>>>>> bewildered, because they were each one hearing them speak in his
own
>>>>> language." The Greek word used here for language is "dialect," but
>>>>> glossa
>>>>> and dialect are used interchangeably so glossa has to mean an
earthly
>>>>> language. (Dialect is also used in verse 8.)
>>>>>
>>>>> The gift of tongues was Spirit-motivated speech (Acts 2:4) in a
>>>>> particular language as we have already established. Now it would be
>>>>> hard
>>>>> to believe that the Spirit today is motivating believers to speak
in
>>>>> babblings or ecstatic speech, because that is contrary to what God
did
>>>>> when He first gave this ability. Unless there is good reason to
think
>>>>> that God changed this particular ability and gift, we have to
assume
>>>>> that
>>>>> the gift of tongues will be the same throughout the entire Bible.
>>>>> Gift of Tongues Was a Sign to Unbelievers and a Sign of Judgment to
>>>>> Israel
>>>>> "So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe, but to
>>>>> unbelievers" (1 Cor. 14:22).
>>>>>
>>>>> In verse 21, the Old Testament is quoted to substantiate that one
of
>>>>> the
>>>>> basic purposes of tongues is to be a sign for unbelievers, but also
>>>>> tongues were a sign to the Jewish nation that they were to be
judged
>>>>> for
>>>>> their unbelief (Deut. 28:49).
>>>>>
>>>>> Anytime there is a foreign language being spoken among the Jews, it
is
>>>>> a
>>>>> sign that God is judging the nation Israel because these foreigners
>>>>> would
>>>>> have conquered Israel (Isa. 28:9 13). Isaiah foretells the judgment
God
>>>>> is going to bring on Israel. The particular people here who have
>>>>> stammering lips and a foreign tongue are the Assyrians. The
presence of
>>>>> the Assyrian language in Israel is an indication and a sign to
Israel
>>>>> that God is judging them for their unbelief.
>>>>> Tongues Were One of the Sign Gifts
>>>>> The sign gifts, remember, were tem****ary gifts to validate the
ministry
>>>>> of the apostles (2 Cor. 12:12). Tongues are specifically called a
sign
>>>>> in
>>>>> 1 Corinthians 14:22.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once a message had been confirmed by signs and wonders, there was
no
>> snip
>>
>>>>
>>>> The miracle of the speaking of tongues was *not* in the speaking;
but in
>>>> the *hearing* for each heard them speak in their native tongue. In
>>>> other
>>>> words, when they said the *one* word "hello" if there were 10
deferent
>>>> speaking people there *each* would hear that *single* word in *his*
>>>> language. they didn't stop and interpret everything said into
several
>>>> languages. They said what they said *one* time and all people of
>>>> different languages heard at the exact *same time* it being said in
>>>> their
>>>> language. To put it into today's references, it would be like
someone
>>>> at
>>>> the United Nations speaking at the podium and all the different
>>>> country's
>>>> representatives there having the ear cups on and the translators
>>>> speaking
>>>> to them in their language. The speaker doesn't stop and speak in
each
>>>> language but everyone there hears them in their own language. The
>>>> difference being that today we use translators; but back then the
gift
>>>> of
>>>> tongs was that they could speak and no matter how many different
>>>> languages
>>>> the crowd spoke each would hear each and every word that was spoken
in
>>>> their own native tongue.
>>>>
>>>
>>>That particular situation with tongues occurred only in early Acts, in
the
>>>assemblies of believers, according to Paul, an interpretor was
necessary.
>>
>>
>> Then why does Paul ALSO say, "tongues then are for NONbelievers, not
>> for believers?"
>>
>>
>> In the passage to which you refer, Paul is REBUKING The Corinthians!
>>
>>
>Don't you have that backwards?
NO.
As someone else just pointed out recently, typically, the first
mention of a subject is typically the "model", unless subsequent
mentions are RADICALLY different.
When the apostles/disciples spoke in tongues at Pentecost, they spoke
for the benefit of NON-believers who were visiting Jerusalem.
They were not edifying EACH OTHER. They attracted a crowd by speaking
in a dozen languages simultaneously, and then when they had their
crowd of THOUSANDS, Peter preached the gospel to the CROWD OF
UNbelievers.
Paul is saying it is *for* believers because
>if non-believers come in and all are speaking in tongues they would be
>thought mad.
Show me that passage!
What you ARE saying is that is how you are UNDERSTANDING what is said.
That is NOT what is being said.
And you are further confusing the issue by not understanding the
IRONIC REBUKE of 1 Cor 12 and 13.
But he does say that speaking in tongues is for a *sign* to
>unbelievers;
Yes! In other words, "speaking in tongues IS FOR A SIGN TO
UNBELIEVERS."
You have literally been so brainwashed that you are stumbling over
your VERY OWN WORDS!
but that speaking in tongues serves the believer.
AGAIN, show me that text.
It simply isn't there. And the text you ARE referring to DRIPS with
sarcasm.
If tongues are UNDERSTOOD by those who hear them (Acts 2) why would
ANYONE need an INTERPRETER?
The person INTERPRETING is the AUDIENCE!
Show me the "interpreter" in Acts 2!
(there isn't one)
Paul is saying, "if you people are going to get up, a dozen at a time,
and "speak in tongues", then, by golly, there better be SOMEONE nearby
to explain all the NOISE you're making!" (interpreter)
He ALSO says, "I am glad I speak in tongues more than ALL of YOU!"
He ALSO says, I would rather speak 5 words that you understand, than
10,000 words you DON'T understand!
He also says
>that unless there be an interpreter to keep silent.
We were taught that when such comments are made, we need to play a
game of jeopardy. "What was the reason for such a remark?"
Could it be that Paul said, "the rest of you BE QUIET!" because the
rest were NOT "being quiet?"
john w
>
>1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that
>believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for
them
>that believe not, but for them which believe.
>
>1 Corinthians 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words
with my
>understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten
thousand
>words in an unknown tongue.
>
>1 Corinthians 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into
one
>place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are
>unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=500 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=0 Received=
20060726221756
Xref: localhost alt.bible:7306 alt.bible.prophecy:732
alt.christnet.public:3026 alt.religion.christian.baptist:41251
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:2598 free.christians:6200
Path: authen.yellow.readfreenews.net!green.octanews.net!news-
out.octanews.net!news.glorb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-
02.inet.qwest.net!news.qwest.net!not-for-mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.
baptist,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,free.christians
Subject: Re: Is the gift of Tongues for the church today?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:15:02 -0700
Message-ID: <1tbgc2hctjiog2gn957ltg1o4km0h5i1uc@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <1153783837_110217@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<96adneHxWtEWCljZnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <rvixg.11984$2v.11820
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <f4kdc2pjjajafb55tvtqvsubb0ur9hnm6h@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<6RDxg.12313$2v.10539@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<lq6fc2lhkpf2j1pgnb5aa68jofc5gt2hru@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <82Oxg.135710$dW3.105270
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <8kefc252rdmll2s312r3qfpdvatnb7iuku@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<BJSxg.12489$2v.10241@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 32
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: 69cbcc2e.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=BMkA5L1C4OiE1jV=`9[H3dF85SKJoGf>dR=GNdC\eDek?
0m@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>ERFVA@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
authen.yellow.readfreenews.net alt.bible:1227332
alt.bible.prophecy:691374 alt.christnet.public:223996
alt.religion.christian.baptist:930592
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:440657 free.christians:97392
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:16:49 GMT, "Songzster" <beethoven@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>"john w" <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>news:8kefc252rdmll2s312r3qfpdvatnb7iuku@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:57:24 GMT, "Songzster" <beethoven@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> wrote:
>>
>> It's as valid as anything you have come up with, or that the WOF
>> movement has come up with, and it fits the scripture, and it "works."
>>
>
>You and your son Bible John sure do like to try to pen labels on people.
>You call me WOF and he tries to call me a Liberal Christian. FYI, I am
>neither. Nor am I Baptist (I read only free.christians, it's you clowns
who
>start crossposting this stuff), Charismatic, Pentecostal, nor anything
else.
>I am simply a Believer who hangs out here in free.christians hoping for
a
>decent conversation with other Believers on occasion. Usually I delete
most
>everything because of the pissing contests you and your boy Bible John
get
>into with everyone who attempts to have a conversation, but once in
awhile
>something interesting comes up in conversation until some idiot
crossposts
>over to the Baptist (etc.) group.
Feel better now?
:-)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=500 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=0 Received=
20060726221506
Xref: localhost alt.bible:7305 alt.bible.prophecy:731
alt.christnet.public:3025 alt.religion.christian.baptist:41248
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:2597 free.christians:6199
Path: pubnews.gradwell.net!news-peer-lilac.gradwell.net!news-
peer.gradwell.net!83.128.0.12.MISMATCH!news-out2.kabelfoon.nl!
newsfeed.kabelfoon.nl!xindi.nntp.kabelfoon.nl!zen.net.uk!
demorgan.zen.co.uk!meganewsservers.com!feeder2.on.meganewsservers.com!
feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-02.inet.qwest.net!news.qwest.net!not-for-
mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.
baptist,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,free.christians
Subject: Re: Is the gift of Tongues for the church today?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:13:38 -0700
Message-ID: <gcbgc2h0lbtgo43dupb646t52smqo66f4d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <1153783837_110217@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<96adneHxWtEWCljZnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <rvixg.11984$2v.11820
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <f4kdc2pjjajafb55tvtqvsubb0ur9hnm6h@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<6RDxg.12313$2v.10539@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<lq6fc2lhkpf2j1pgnb5aa68jofc5gt2hru@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <82Oxg.135710$dW3.105270
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <8kefc252rdmll2s312r3qfpdvatnb7iuku@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<0q2dneuZ0ZsMQ1rZnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 183
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: 69cbcc2e.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=gC_WI3AZP<hVjc>QWI\:mlF85SKJoGf>dR=GNdC\eDek?
0m@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>ERFVA@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
pubnews.gradwell.net alt.bible:534115
alt.bible.prophecy:176532 alt.religion.christian.baptist:545533
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:202858
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:28:47 -0400, "Sugien" <dinosoft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>"john w" <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>news:8kefc252rdmll2s312r3qfpdvatnb7iuku@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:57:24 GMT, "Songzster" <beethoven@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>>>
>>>"john w" <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>news:lq6fc2lhkpf2j1pgnb5aa68jofc5gt2hru@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 06:20:50 GMT, "Songzster" <beethoven@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>He also says he will pray with understanding AND with the Spirit -
and
>>>>>that
>>>>>he will sing with understanding AND with the Spirit - thus one can
pray
>>>>>and
>>>>>sing in the flesh using their native tongue, but praying and singing
>>>>>with
>>>>>the Spirit involves something other than understanding.
>>>>
>>>> You are AGAIN misinterpreting.
>>>>
>>>> Every time I bow my head and pray, "Lord, bless this meal", I am
>>>> praying with my Spirit.
>>>
>>>That IS NOT what Paul says. What he says VERY PLAINLY is that there
is a
>>>difference between praying "with the Spirit" and "praying with
>>>understanding." Your argument is with Paul, not me.
>>
>> My argument is with your misunderstanding of what Paul said and meant.
>>
>> 1CO 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of
>> you.
>>
>> *** 19 But in the church I would rather speak
>>
>> five intelligible words to instruct others
>>
>> than ten thousand words in a tongue.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> I need no 'other tongue."
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thus - if tongues have ceased, we are no longer capable of singing
or
>>>>>praying "with the Spirit"
>>>>
>>>> Says who?
>>>>
>>>> You have NO CLUE what you are talking about! You merely parrot the
WOF
>>>> charlatans.
>>>>
>>>> They have no clue either!
>>>>
>>>> 1CO 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they
>>>> will cease;
>>>>
>>>> Prophesy (the ability to see the future, as Bible prophesy does, and
>>>> the gift the apostles used to write the New Testament) "will cease."
>>>> When the New Testament was completed (in the 1st C), the "gift of
>>>> prophesy" ceased.
>>>>
>>>
>>>This is an interpretation, a common one, but an interpretation of and
by
>>>man/men nonetheless.
>>
>> It's as valid as anything you have come up with, or that the WOF
>> movement has come up with, and it fits the scripture, and it "works."
>>
>> In my almost 60 years, I have attended perhaps a dozen different
>> "Pentecostal" churches, and I have YET to hear one single incident of
>> anyone speaking in tongues.
>>
>> What I DID hear was a lot of babbling.
>>
>> (and BTW, there is a lot more to prophecy than you
>>>state.)
>>
>> There are two types of prophesy mentioned in the Bible. You confuse
>> the two.
>>
>> The type of prophesy that is a special gift (a "sign" gift) was given
>> TO THE APOSTLES to use to write the Bible.
>>
>> The other kind of prophesy that is mentioned simply means "preaching".
>>
>> There is no other.
>>
>> And Paul said-- and history has proved-- that the prophesy involved in
>> writing the Bible-- is LONG gone.
>>
>>>
>>>Nowhere else in scripture does "perfect" refer to scriptures or
"Canon."
>>
>> Anyone who is HONEST spiritually can do the timeline.
>>
>> Something-- SOMETHING -- PERFECT came AFTER Paul wrote the first of
>> the epistles, and AFTER the Holy Spirit came. Since the Holy Spirit
>> came in Acts 2, the "perfect" cannot refer to the Holy Spirit.
>>
>Are you referring to:
>
>1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
>10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part
shall
>be done away.
>
>Are you saying this is referring to the bible coming? and not the return
of
>Jesus?
Precisely!
The Bible fits the prophesy! "When the perfect (Bible) comes (is
complete/ the writing of it finished), the imperfect (sign gifts:
tongues/knowledge/prophesy) shall pass away.
And note, "when I was a child (baby Christian), I spoke as a child
(tongues); when I became a man (mature Christian/"maturity" shouldn't
take over 5 or 10 years), I put away the childish things (speaking in
tongues/signs)
Note that Paul is saying that this cessation has ALREADY TAKEN place.
"When I BECAME a MAN, I PUT AWAY childish things.' Past tense.
By the time Paul wrote 1 Cor 13, the sign gifts had already ceased.
You are aware that in Paul's day the old testament already existed
>correct?
??????
Are YOU aware that Jesus BEGAN His ministry by going to the TEMPLE and
reading the Old Testament scrolls?
Have you done any reading on exactly how and when the NT came into
>existence?
I know that there are several different traditions regarding this.
I also know that the apostles knew that they were writing scripture,
and that before the end of the 1st C (that's like between 30 AD and 99
AD), they were ALREADY circulating the different (books/letters),
meaning the Bible was being WIDELY read in "tract" form in the 1st C.
Done any reading on the council at Nicea? Have you read about
>Marcus's Eraser. Have your read any of the texts that *did not* make it
>into our present day NT?
I am not going to even get into this discussion.
Are you aware that the last book of the NT only
>made it in by *one* vote? Those references are part of the reading I
have
>taken into consideration along with reading the bible and as such I can
only
>conclude that the above referenced NT verses if they *are* what you are
>referring to would be talking about when Jesus comes back and not about
the
>bible.
What I am saying is that the book of 1 Cor was in WIDE circulation in
the 1st Century AD, and the CHURCH of THAT day was WELL aware of
Paul's teaching CENTURIES before any "Nicean Council" made any
"decisions" or "canonized" any books.
Are you then saying that there wasn't a collection of SCRIPTURE (OT or
NT) until Rome said so?
The Bible didn't need any man to authorize it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=500 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=0 Received=
20060726220814
Xref: localhost alt.bible:7304 alt.bible.prophecy:729
alt.christnet.public:3024 alt.religion.christian.baptist:41242
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:2593 free.christians:6198
Path: authen.yellow.readfreenews.net!green.octanews.net!news-
out.octanews.net!news.glorb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-
03.inet.qwest.net!news.qwest.net!not-for-mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.
baptist,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,free.christians
Subject: Re: Is the gift of Tongues for the church today?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:05:17 -0700
Message-ID: <ceagc25f2afsnrvqt3qeo9iar4t6grlhgt@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <1153783837_110217@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<96adneHxWtEWCljZnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <rvixg.11984$2v.11820
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <f4kdc2pjjajafb55tvtqvsubb0ur9hnm6h@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<6RDxg.12313$2v.10539@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<lq6fc2lhkpf2j1pgnb5aa68jofc5gt2hru@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <82Oxg.135710$dW3.105270
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <8kefc252rdmll2s312r3qfpdvatnb7iuku@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<UIPxg.12451$2v.10312@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 297
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: 69cbcc2e.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=d^C_KPOVBg_^@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:n5]F85SKJoGf>T5@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
authen.yellow.readfreenews.net alt.bible:1227328
alt.bible.prophecy:691371 alt.christnet.public:223994
alt.religion.christian.baptist:930583
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:440652 free.christians:97390
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:51:16 GMT, "Songzster" <beethoven@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>"john w" <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>news:8kefc252rdmll2s312r3qfpdvatnb7iuku@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:57:24 GMT, "Songzster" <beethoven@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>> article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>> author
>>>
>>>"john w" <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>news:lq6fc2lhkpf2j1pgnb5aa68jofc5gt2hru@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 06:20:50 GMT, "Songzster" <beethoven@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>He also says he will pray with understanding AND with the Spirit -
and
>>>>>that
>>>>>he will sing with understanding AND with the Spirit - thus one can
pray
>>>>>and
>>>>>sing in the flesh using their native tongue, but praying and singing
>>>>>with
>>>>>the Spirit involves something other than understanding.
>>>>
>>>> You are AGAIN misinterpreting.
>>>>
>>>> Every time I bow my head and pray, "Lord, bless this meal", I am
>>>> praying with my Spirit.
>>>
>>>That IS NOT what Paul says. What he says VERY PLAINLY is that there
is a
>>>difference between praying "with the Spirit" and "praying with
>>>understanding." Your argument is with Paul, not me.
>>
>> My argument is with your misunderstanding of what Paul said and meant.
>>
>> 1CO 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of
>> you.
>>
>> *** 19 But in the church I would rather speak
>>
>> five intelligible words to instruct others
>>
>> than ten thousand words in a tongue.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> I need no 'other tongue."
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thus - if tongues have ceased, we are no longer capable of singing
or
>>>>>praying "with the Spirit"
>>>>
>>>> Says who?
>>>>
>>>> You have NO CLUE what you are talking about! You merely parrot the
WOF
>>>> charlatans.
>>>>
>>>> They have no clue either!
>>>>
>>>> 1CO 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they
>>>> will cease;
>>>>
>>>> Prophesy (the ability to see the future, as Bible prophesy does, and
>>>> the gift the apostles used to write the New Testament) "will cease."
>>>> When the New Testament was completed (in the 1st C), the "gift of
>>>> prophesy" ceased.
>>>>
>>>
>>>This is an interpretation, a common one, but an interpretation of and
by
>>>man/men nonetheless.
>>
>> It's as valid as anything you have come up with, or that the WOF
>> movement has come up with, and it fits the scripture, and it "works."
>>
>> In my almost 60 years, I have attended perhaps a dozen different
>> "Pentecostal" churches, and I have YET to hear one single incident of
>> anyone speaking in tongues.
>>
>> What I DID hear was a lot of babbling.
>>
>> (and BTW, there is a lot more to prophecy than you
>>>state.)
>>
>> There are two types of prophesy mentioned in the Bible. You confuse
>> the two.
>>
>> The type of prophesy that is a special gift (a "sign" gift) was given
>> TO THE APOSTLES to use to write the Bible.
>>
>> The other kind of prophesy that is mentioned simply means "preaching".
>>
>> There is no other.
>>
>> And Paul said-- and history has proved-- that the prophesy involved in
>> writing the Bible-- is LONG gone.
>>
>
>Actually, Mark tells us that the signs and wonders confirmed the Gospel,
the
>more obvious answer to the conundrum is that, after the death of the
>original apostles, less and less of the gospel was preached for the
Spirit
>to confirm with signs and wonders culminating in the total apostacy of
the
>church by the time of the creation of the Canon by Constantine and the
>Catholic Church.
smirk.
>
>>>
>>>Nowhere else in scripture does "perfect" refer to scriptures or
"Canon."
>>
>> Anyone who is HONEST spiritually can do the timeline.
>>
>> Something-- SOMETHING -- PERFECT came AFTER Paul wrote the first of
>> the epistles, and AFTER the Holy Spirit came. Since the Holy Spirit
>> came in Acts 2, the "perfect" cannot refer to the Holy Spirit.
>>
>> Since there will be NO need for sign gifts -- or any other gifts for
>> that matter-- when Jesus returns, then the "perfect" that is mentioned
>> has already come.
>>
>> Simple time line.
>>
>> And the ONLY thing of which I am aware that came/ and was COMPLETED
>> during Paul's lifetime is the Bible.
>
>Actually, the Canon was NOT completed in Paul's lifetime, Revelation was
>written after his death.
Actually, the information I got in seminary (textbooks and all) is
that the entire New Testament was finished BEFORE his death. At the
VERY least, it was completed before the end of the 1st C. But the
EVIDENCE indicates that the entire canon was completed (at least it
was all WRITTEN before 70 AD.
And there is one VERY significant historical incident that took place
in 70 AD that is NOT mentioned in the New Testament, dating the entire
New Testament to being finished BEFORE the incident.
>
>I hesitated to state WHAT is "perfect," in my previous post, but here
goes,
>that "perfection" is the return of Christ and the "restoration of all
>things" by Christ during the millinium.
That is not even a good guess, for reasons that have been discussed to
exhaustion.
>
>>
>> Meaning, when the Bible was finished (being written), there was no
>> more need for the sign gifts.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>The rest of your comments are based on false premises and thus (along
with
>>>your childishness) unworthy of comment.
>>
>> You need not believe as I do.
>>
>> However, I will issue you a friendly challenge, as I have issued the
>> challenge to hundreds before you.
>>
>>
>> If sign gifts are real and for today, show me a sign gift.
>>
>> If you are capable of raising the dead (Peter and Paul both did),
>> kindly raise my mother and my sister.
>>
>> If you are truly capable of "greater miracles" than Jesus did, why are
>> the hospitals in your neighborhood still full of sick and dying
>> people?
>>
>> Why have you not emptied the graveyards and raised all the dead back
>> to life?
>>
>> If this MIRACLE power is in you, why is it all talk?
>>
>
>Now you are adding an additional issue to the conversation,
Not at all. I am asking you for PROOF that "sign gifts" are for today.
In Jesus day, and in the days of the Apostles (called "the Apostolic
Age"), while miracles were not "everyday" occurrences, they occurred
enough that the entire ancient world knew about the Christians. They
had power.
I did not claim
>to do any of these things other than pray and sing in tongues in the
privacy
>of my home (and under my breath when out and about).
I am saying that the sign gifts did not exist in isolation. If one
sign gift is active today (tongues) then ALL of them are active today.
If the Holy Spirit can make you speak languages you have never learned
(like German, French, Latin, Greek, Czech), then He is equally capable
of making you raise the dead, calm storms, and turn dirt into 24 Caret
Gold. If there are sign gifts today, why limit God?
Why HEDGE?
(and what you are doing IS HEDGING!)
I have NEVER given a
>public "word" in tongues.
Why not? Paul made it VERY clear that "tongues are a sign to
UNBELIEVERS!"
Why do you hide your light under a bushel?
And AGAIN-- if tongues are for real today, how come when I see Benny
Hinn and Rod Parsley and Pat Robertson and Oral Roberts in China or in
Argentina, they require TRANSLATORS?
Why aren't they speaking in tongues?
From a very early age, the Lord has called me to
>ministry, as I grew older, I asked him to clarify my calling, He told me
>simply: You are called to pray.
I have no problem with people being called to pray. My mother was
called to pray. For many years, I had a prayer gift.
The only gifts the Lord has seen fit to
>give me is the ability to (and delight in) pray and sing in tongues
Sadly, you have defied Galatians 1. Galatians 1 says that what we
teach and preach MUST conform to what has been taught (scripture). You
are content -- with Pat Robertson-- to believe and to teach, "hey,
it's HAPPENING! It MUST be from God!"
What if (give you an example) someone whom you didn't know heard you
speaking (praying) in tongues, and he secretly made tape recordings of
it, and he then took them to a linguist, and the linguist detected
that you were blaspheming God in Swahili?
If you don't know what it is you are saying/praying, how do you know
that you are blessing God?
Give you a REAL world example:
My home church in Los Angeles, First Baptist of Van Nuys, was right
down the street (some 3 miles or so) from the world famous "Church on
the Way" pastored by Dr Jack Hayford. Our church was VERY curious
about what was happening there, so on several occasions, we sent elder
delegations IN SECRET to attend services at Church on the Way, and
re****t back. One of our elders JUST HAPPENED to be an African.
He re****ted back that "when one of the members got up to prophesy in
"tongues", he was actually blaspheming Jesus Christ in an African
language." All the while, the dupes at the church were praising God
for this "message in tongues."
and
>discernment (at times) as the Spirit wills.
Actually, you are in this very post, proving that you do NOT have the
gift of discernment, or you would not be "praying in tongues".
There is absolutely NO scriptural foundation for "praying in tongues".
You -- like MANY -- are MISinterpreting "praying in the Spirit" for
"praying in tongues."
Every time ANY Christian prays, he / she is "praying in the Spirit."
In other words, He has given me
>the least of the gifts for the lowest of ministries (ps. 84:10) - but I
am
>cool with that.
Try being SCRIPTURAL, and then you might concern yourself with being
"cool."
Too many pentecostals forget to be scriptural!
I recently tuned in Pat Robertson (700 Club) during his "answering
phone call questions" time. Someone called in and asked him "What
about "Being Slain in the Spirit?"
Pat's answer floored me. "I don't know what that's all about, frankly!
But since it's happening in churches all over the world, it must be
ok!"
That is NOT what Paul said.
Galatians 1.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=500 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=0 Received=
20060726215151
Xref: localhost alt.bible:7303 alt.bible.prophecy:728
alt.christnet.public:3023 alt.religion.christian.baptist:41239
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:2590 free.christians:6197
Path: dp-news.maxwell.syr.edu!spool.maxwell.syr.edu!news-
spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!
newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.icl.net!colt.net!news.nl.colt.net!
newsgate.cistron.nl!xs4all!news2.euro.net!66.150.105.54.MISMATCH!
newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!statler.nntpserver.com!
feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-04.inet.qwest.net!news.qwest.net!not-for-
mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.
baptist,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,free.christians
Subject: Re: Is the gift of Tongues for the church today?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:48:38 -0700
Message-ID: <i3agc217hfs5kp9lg0mcvklqk1h74e1u6h@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <1153783837_110217@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<btsac2h55650tjjqk311tief8it6n6eisi@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<b7jdc2t4d0v686el7ubfru1q4agnui65f3@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153893800_6107
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <to3ec21sfbmdn4kvo13kjf27n0fpgacagt@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<5n6fc2t5r3s1avop48prceuppshet15q3k@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<ctcfc2de21f59rqule30dvmuurk3j1d87p@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 230
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: bf6f959d.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=:K^a_PcCS<hVjc>QWI\:mlF85SKJoGf>d8DQ<3EJ1V4lgRiX5Ran0@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
dp-news.maxwell.syr.edu alt.bible.prophecy:484699
alt.christnet.public:183509 alt.religion.christian.baptist:844696
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:396708
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:43:22 GMT, Bible Bob <biblebob@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 09:41:14 -0700, john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>wrote:
>
>>x-no-archive: yes
>>On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 06:46:21 GMT, Bible Bob <biblebob@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>wrote:
>> copyright 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of
>>this article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of
>>the author
>>>On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:18:12 -0700, "Bible John"
>>><john.doggett@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Brother Weatherly I would appreciate a moment of your time in a AIM
or IRC
>>>>chat.
>>>>
>>>>Lord willing we need to get over our differences.
>>>>
>>>>Lord willing,
>>>>
>>>>John
>>>
>>>John,
>>>
>>>What does "Lord willing" mean? Obviously, since there is supposed to
>>>be unity in he one body people are instructed to put aside their
>>>differences so they can walk in unity.
>>>
>>>I have always wondered why any Christian would ever say "Lord willing"
>>>since it indicates that the person does not know the will of God
>>>because he does not read his Bible.
>>
>>AGAIN, BB, you demonstrate OPENLY that you are not any sort of sincere
>>Bible student, and that you only quote/remember those passages you
>>find advantageous.
>
>Actually, John, that is proof that I am a student of the Bible.
LOL!!
You are such a _____!
The
>phrase "Lord willing" does not appear in the Bible.
And a Pharisee, too!
Why? Because God
>has revealed unto us all things that pertain to life and godliness
If that were true, there would be NO reason for us to pray.
Yet Jesus taught us to pray, He prayed DAILY, and He even taught us
HOW to pray.
"Our Father, who art in Heaven.
Hallowed be your name!
Your Kingdom come!
Your will be done!
(one place we get the phrase, "If God wills")
On Earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread
And forgive us, as we forgive others.
And lead us -- not into temptation--
but deliver us from evil.
Amen.
and
>God expects us to know His will which is the revealed word of God.
smirk.
I note that you preach from your armpit, but I see your scripture
proof is sadly lacking.
What is it you preach, Bob? The gospel of Bob?
>
>All of the passages are advantageous. I do quote many of them rightly
>divided in context because that is what I am supposed to do.
>
>But you do know church traditions better than I; why do people say
>"Lord willing?" Where did that come from?
>>
>>The Bible itself says that we should not "swear by one hair of our
>>head", but that INSTEAD, we should say, "if God wills."
>
>That't not what Matthew 5 says. The only passage that comes close is
>the following -
>
>1 Peter 3:17 LITV
>For it is better, if the will of God wills it, to suffer for doing
>good than for doing evil.
>
>
>Even there the particle "ei" expressed as the conjunction "if" with
>the optative mood expresses mere assumptions or conjecture without any
>subordiate idea; an entire uncertainty. The translkation of the Greek
>from an Interlinear reads:
>
>For [it is] better, [for you] doing good, if wills [it] the will of
>God, to suffer than doing evil.
>
>In other words, it is better to do good which is the will of God than
>to suffer for doing evil.
>
>So you see, John, my question is both logical and reasonable.
>
>In my own life, if I want to know the will of God about something I go
>to the word of God. I do not pray for what I do not know to be the
>will of God. To do so, from my perspective, would be foolish because
>all prayers to God are supposed to be in harmony with the will of God.
>
>There have been times when I have been confused about something I
>needed to pray about. In those cases I simply admit to God that I do
>not understand and ask that He do what is appropriate.
>>
>>
>>john w
>>>>
>>>>"john w" <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>>news:b7jdc2t4d0v686el7ubfru1q4agnui65f3@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> x-no-archive: yes
>>>>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 02:22:46 GMT, Bible Bob <biblebob@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> copyright 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of
>>>>> this article may be used elsewhere without express written consent
of
>>>>> the author
>>>>>>On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 16:44:48 -0700, "Bible John"
>>>>>><john.doggett@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Okay, John, you wanted me to critique your CERM articles. I like
this
>>>>>>topic, let's see if you know what you are talking about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.cerm.info/bible_studies/Theological/sign_gifts.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>LOL! You didn't write that. You stole it from someone unless
someone
>>>>>>is letting you use their material.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously, BB!
>>>>>
>>>>> That sure took a genius to figure out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just go to the bottom of the page, and you find that BJ didn't even
>>>>> snip the entire article. ( I sure HOPE he got permission to cut and
>>>>> paste it). He was so sloppy in his cut-and-paste that BJ didn't
even
>>>>> get the whole sentence!
>>>>>
>>>>> "* This re****t has been adapted from a booklet by the same name, by
>>>>> Gil Rugh, Senior Pastor, Indian Hills Community Church, Lincoln, NE
>>>>> 68510. This booklet in its entirety, as well as other booklets on
>>>>> other topics of interest by Gil Rugh, may be downloaded in "PDF"
>>>>> format from the . "
>>>>>
>>>>> At LEAST, BJ could have used the WHOLE article.
>>>>>
>>>>> tsk tsk
>>>>>
>>>>> Sloppy stuff, BJ!
>>>>> Does this sloppy work honor Jesus?
>>>>>
>>>>> I say it does not!
>>>>>
>>>>> Like the 2 "published" articles I found on your page, BJ! I was
>>>>> impressed that you actually had 2 "published articles" on your
page,
>>>>> till I actually LOOKED, and they were BOTH
>>>>>
>>>>> letters to the editor!
>>>>>
>>>>> and ONE you SCANNED onto your page, and you didn't even BOTHER to
scan
>>>>> it STRAIGHT!
>>>>>
>>>>> tsk tsk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Let's start with the title.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"A Review of the (Nine) Tem****ary Spiritual Gifts*"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There is no mention of tem****ary spiritual gifts in the Bible.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, BB, if you were 1/10th the scholar you CLAIM to be, there
is
>>>>> a list of "tem****ary spiritual gifts" in 1 Cor 13.
>>>>>
>>>>> "When that which is perfect comes, then the imperfect "sign gifts"
>>>>> will cease."
>>>>>
>>>>> "For we KNOW in part, and we PROPHESY in part."
>>>>>
>>>>> ("in part" being a reference to IMPERFECT gifts.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Must
>>>>>>be something some idiotes made up.
>>>>>
>>>>> AGAIN, BB, you prove CONCLUSIVEDLY your absolute inability to read
the
>>>>> text literally and understand what it says LITERALLY.
>>>>>
>>>>> You approach the Bible with so many preconceived notions of what it
>>>>> means that the Holy Spirit simply cannot communicate with you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And since no one but no one but YOU, (BB) cares a RIP about your
>>>>> "analysis" of scripture,
>>>>>
>>>>> snip
>>>>>
>>>>> john w
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>.....
>>>BB
>>>http://www.biblebob.net
>
>
>.....
>BB
>http://www.biblebob.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=500 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=0 Received=
20060726214520
Xref: localhost alt.christnet.public:3022
alt.religion.christian.baptist:41237 free.christians:6196
Path: authen.yellow.readfreenews.net!green.octanews.net!news-
out.octanews.net!mauve.octanews.net!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-
01.inet.qwest.net!news.qwest.net!not-for-mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.baptist,free.christians
Subject: Re: Bible Bob answer this question
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:43:17 -0700
Message-ID: <vk9gc2h3b0srnmqv6hrv8ipu6uiapn81rc@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <1153784201_110311@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<giqac2hifu2hpbsqslb61u4slvhmccihan@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153800499_111663
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153803502.425934.59220
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <eb6fc216q7c92h85237rcspv1flddjpums@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153945405.743881.116440@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 129
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: bf6f959d.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=GYXMo;>bIh^J1lSMhIgnbXF85SKJoGf>TLahYg@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
authen.yellow.readfreenews.net alt.christnet.public:223991
alt.religion.christian.baptist:930575 free.christians:97386
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
x-no-archive: yes
On 26 Jul 2006 13:23:25 -0700, "Hoopdeedoosoever"
<ontheskagit@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>
>john w wrote:
>> Oh! And if you haven't noticed, Casey Treat (the BIG WOF pastor in
>> Seattle), has been preaching 'if you don't sin, you won't be sick!"
>> "And if you get sick, repent, and you won't be sick anymore"
>> recently confessed that he suffers an INCURABLE DISEASE, Hepatitis!
>> He contracted it back when he was shooting up and sharing needles.
>> But-- in order to build up his ministry-- he has kept it a secret
>> (lied about it) for over 15 years.
tsk tsk
I just so HAPPENED to be watching his show the morning he announced
his illness from his pulpit.
(he and I happen to live in the same city, so Casey Treat news is
LOCAL news)
I listened to his "sermon" twice that week. Same story.
He knew he was sick for YEARS. HE said "some 15-20 years", not me.
If you want to nit-pick, find someone who will nit-pick with you.
His illness may have been DIAGNOSED just recently, but he's known he
was sick for nearly 2 decades.
And he traced his illness back-- through his doctors-- to when he was
shooting up and sharing needles when he was a teenager.
>>
>> cough choke
>>
>> chuckle
>>
>> smirk
>
>Wanna explain how according to your statement ("He contracted it back
>when he was shooting up and sharing needles. But-- in order to build
>up his ministry-- he has kept it a secret (lied about it) for over 15
>years") Treat's been lying about his illness for fifteen years when he
>was only diagnosed with it in 2003?
See above.
I am paraphrasing Casey's own remarks.
>
>The following is from a 2004 Seattle Times article taken off of their
>website:
>
>Thursday, May 06, 2004
>
>Evangelist reveals his battle with hepatitis
>By The Associated Press
>
>"The Rev. Casey Treat has spent years teaching his followers that God
>can help them overcome adversity. The leader of one of the largest
>evangelical Christian churches in the Northwest is now practicing what
>he preaches
---v
as he battles hepatitis C, which he and his doctors believe
>he contracted from injecting drugs as a teenager.
--- ^
I believe Casey Treat is now in his 40s. That would make the
contracting of the disease some 20 years ago. If you are quibbling
over how long ago he contracted the disease, I can't even find his age
or his DOB on the web!
>
>"This seemed like a battle I could overcome to continue my vision,"
>said Treat, who was diagnosed a year ago and revealed his illness
>during services at SeaTac's Christian Faith Center last month. "I
>believe in healing. It was never an option of dying young. It was more
>of a fight of faith." Despite months of draining treatment, the popular
>pastor, author and motivational speaker has remained active and is
>continuing to push for the construction of a controversial 4,500-seat
>megachurch in Federal Way.
>
>At age 19, Treat gave up drugs for Jesus and says he has been clean
>ever since. But he believes it was during those turbulent teenage years
>in Spanaway that the disease, which is spread through contact with
>contaminated blood, took hold of his body. Hepatitis C causes
>inflammation of the liver, which can lead to cirrhosis, liver cancer
>and liver failure. In December, Treat started a rigorous nine-month
>chemotherapy program through the University of Wa****ngton Medical
>Center. The odds were 50-50 the treatment would work. In March, blood
>tests showed his viral count was negative, meaning doctors can no
>longer find hepatitis C in his system, he said. Tests show he has
>minimal liver damage.
>
>Treat, 48, founded Christian Faith Center in SeaTac in 1980 and hosts a
>program on KING and KCPQ-TV. He will continue with chemotherapy through
>September, giving himself injections twice a week and taking pills
>morning and night. "They want to make sure it doesn't come back," Treat
>said. "My doctor said, 'You're going to die from something, but it
>won't be hepatitis.' " The draining chemotherapy regimen has left him
>fatigued, and he has lost 10 pounds from his 6-foot-3-inch frame. But
>his signature crop of carrot-colored hair has stayed in place, and he
>expects to be back to normal health within a few weeks of completing
>chemotherapy.
>
>Treat continues to preach every Saturday night and Sunday morning to
>his Christian Faith Center congregation in SeaTac and to his new
>satellite congregation in Everett. And despite his fatigue, he has just
>embarked on a two-week speaking trip, which includes a stop in Seoul,
>South Korea."
>
>So, John Weatherly, I just thought I'd give you a chance to back up
>your claim that he lied. How are you privvy to such information?
If you haven't gotten it yet, you aren't going to.
;-)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=500 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=0 Received=
20060726213831
Xref: localhost alt.religion.christian.baptist:41235
Path: pubnews.gradwell.net!news-peer-lilac.gradwell.net!bbc!
newspeer1.nwr.nac.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!
prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-
04.inet.qwest.net!news.qwest.net!not-for-mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: WOW! Lance Bass (NSYNC) Announces He's Gay!
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:35:40 -0700
Message-ID: <2j9gc2dh7rkj3rr0lg5s6vgdche9cc9c9l@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 1
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: bf6f959d.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=3\^KWT62@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>DDW>noVR`P=LgRiX5Ran0@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
pubnews.gradwell.net alt.religion.christian.baptist:545517
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=500 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=0 Received=
20060726213509
Xref: localhost alt.christnet.public:3021
alt.religion.christian.baptist:41232 free.christians:6195
Path: dp-news.maxwell.syr.edu!spool.maxwell.syr.edu!news-
spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!
newsfeed.fjserv.net!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feeder.news-
service.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-
nntp-01.inet.qwest.net!news.qwest.net!not-for-mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.baptist,free.christians
Subject: Re: Bible Bob answer this question
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:33:51 -0700
Message-ID: <bf9gc2l4nbnumdkcj78mipb669qltcotbe@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <1153784201_110311@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<giqac2hifu2hpbsqslb61u4slvhmccihan@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153800499_111663
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153803502.425934.59220
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <eb6fc216q7c92h85237rcspv1flddjpums@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153932910.014821.300380@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<nbefc2t5u7fhao2ui49tp9rlma4ok2r5on@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 38
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: bf6f959d.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=GQii`P3jI>:ZJj?dHY5:98F85SKJoGf>4DW>noVR`P=<gRiX5Ran0@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>?HJfd1GeWo>
X-Complaints-To: abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
dp-news.maxwell.syr.edu alt.christnet.public:183507
alt.religion.christian.baptist:844687
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:52:45 GMT, Bible Bob <biblebob@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>On 26 Jul 2006 09:55:10 -0700, "Hoopdeedoosoever"
><ontheskagit@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>
>>john w wrote:
>>> Oh! And if you haven't noticed, Casey Treat (the BIG WOF pastor in
>>> Seattle), has been preaching 'if you don't sin, you won't be sick!"
>>> "And if you get sick, repent, and you won't be sick anymore"
>>> recently confessed that he suffers an INCURABLE DISEASE, Hepatitis!
>>> He contracted it back when he was shooting up and sharing needles.
>>> But-- in order to build up his ministry-- he has kept it a secret
>>> (lied about it) for over 15 years.
>>> cough choke
>>> chuckle
>>> smirk
>>
>>Why are you delighting in evil?
>
>That should be obvious. After all he does write about "horn"ey stuff
You AGAIN, falsely accuse, Satan!
tsk
>and "tail". He writes what he knows about. Ain't that right jw?
>Stuff he sees in the mirror.
>
>.....
>BB
>http://www.biblebob.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=500 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=0 Received=
20060726213502
Xref: localhost alt.christnet.public:3020
alt.religion.christian.baptist:41230 free.christians:6194
Path: dp-news.maxwell.syr.edu!spool.maxwell.syr.edu!news-
spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!
newsfeed.icl.net!colt.net!newspeer1.nwr.nac.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!
news-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!
border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!novia!
feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-02.inet.qwest.net!news.qwest.net!not-for-
mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.baptist,free.christians
Subject: Re: Bible Bob answer this question
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:32:54 -0700
Message-ID: <nb9gc290cvos545tuejnu0m8q9q6r5apb8@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <1153784201_110311@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<giqac2hifu2hpbsqslb61u4slvhmccihan@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153800499_111663
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153803502.425934.59220
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <eb6fc216q7c92h85237rcspv1flddjpums@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153932910.014821.300380@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<f39fc25a31v3930qnb4g2enmqjpmo6v4cp@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<1sefc2hbns43hca8okabho5s9k51h12ua8@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 68
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: bf6f959d.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=?Z9jJYSD7>nS8TVYY7YP1aF85SKJoGf>dDW>noVR`P=lgRiX5Ran0@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
dp-news.maxwell.syr.edu alt.christnet.public:183506
alt.religion.christian.baptist:844686
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:00:00 GMT, Bible Bob <biblebob@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:22:05 -0700, john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>wrote:
>
>>x-no-archive: yes
>>On 26 Jul 2006 09:55:10 -0700, "Hoopdeedoosoever"
>><ontheskagit@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> copyright 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of
>>this article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of
>>the author
>>>
>>>john w wrote:
>>>> Oh! And if you haven't noticed, Casey Treat (the BIG WOF pastor in
>>>> Seattle), has been preaching 'if you don't sin, you won't be sick!"
>>>> "And if you get sick, repent, and you won't be sick anymore"
>>>> recently confessed that he suffers an INCURABLE DISEASE, Hepatitis!
>>>> He contracted it back when he was shooting up and sharing needles.
>>>> But-- in order to build up his ministry-- he has kept it a secret
>>>> (lied about it) for over 15 years.
>>>> cough choke
>>>> chuckle
>>>> smirk
>>>
>>>Why are you delighting in evil?
>>
>>???
>>
>>Casey Treat is a false prophet, a total phony. He is misleading
>>MILLIONS with a false doctrine (Gal 1), and Paul said we are to expose
>>the false prophets.
>>
>>
>>If you read your Bible, you wouldn't accuse me thus!
>>
>>And we all know who the father of the accusers is!
>>
>>
>>;-)
>>
>jw, you are the one doing the accusing; or, is that backbiting?
>
Not at all. I don't consider Casey Treat a Christian. I consider him a
false teacher. And I made that clear.
And when I was falsely accused of false motives and false accusations,
I pointed out that *I* am being falsely accused.
And that the father of false accusations is Satan.
You should be WELL acquainted with Satan, BB, since he's your
spiritual daddy!
;-)
but, you knew that!
>.....
>BB
>http://www.biblebob.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Hamster-Info: Score=500 ScoreLoad=500 ScoreSave=0 Received=
20060726213147
Xref: localhost alt.christnet.public:3019
alt.religion.christian.baptist:41229 free.christians:6192
Path: authen.yellow.readfreenews.net!green.octanews.net!news-
out.octanews.net!news.glorb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-
02.inet.qwest.net!news.qwest.net!not-for-mail
From: john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups:
alt.christnet.public,alt.religion.christian.baptist,free.christians
Subject: Re: Bible Bob answer this question
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:31:04 -0700
Message-ID: <1a9gc2lfek912u33fpgrr6aia09iafctiv@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
References: <1153784201_110311@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<giqac2hifu2hpbsqslb61u4slvhmccihan@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153800499_111663
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153803502.425934.59220
@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <eb6fc216q7c92h85237rcspv1flddjpums@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153932910.014821.300380@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<f39fc25a31v3930qnb4g2enmqjpmo6v4cp@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <1153936251.368246.138970@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <vvdfc2tl2a0ttm9fbrisvtjqi1njml86ja@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<plpfc21iharg87m5o09569113j7u3ofjrh@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Lines: 191
Organization: Qwest Communications Cor****ation
NNTP-Posting-Host: bf6f959d.news.qwest.net
X-Trace: DXC=6mI0bVlK]k@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>DDW>noVR`P=LgRiX5Ran0@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
abuse@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
authen.yellow.readfreenews.net alt.christnet.public:223988
alt.religion.christian.baptist:930567 free.christians:97382
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0630-2, 07/26/2006), Inbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:20:57 GMT, Bible Bob <biblebob@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
>On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:52:30 -0700, john w <wjohn1134@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>wrote:
>
>>x-no-archive: yes
>>On 26 Jul 2006 10:50:51 -0700, "Hoopdeedoosoever"
>><ontheskagit@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> © 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no ****tion of this
>>article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
>>author
>>>
>>>john w wrote:
>>>> ???
>>>> Casey Treat is a false prophet, a total phony. He is misleading
>>>> MILLIONS with a false doctrine (Gal 1), and Paul said we are to
expose
>>>> the false prophets.
>>>
>>>And Jesus said that we are to love one another, including our
>>>neighbors.
>>
>>You seem to delight in quoting certain passages while you religiously
>>AVOID others.
>>
>>Jesus had no love for the Pharisees!
>>
>>And He viciously ATTACKED the money changers!
>
>That's not true jw;
as I have stated repeatedly previously, I will not discuss scripture
with an anti-Christ cultist.
nuff said.
john w
but it has more to do with the translation your
>incorrect use of the word viciously.
>
>The Greek reads "And he found in the temple those who sold oxen and
>sheep and doves and the money changers sitting and having made a
>scourge of cords he drove out from the temple both the sheep and the
>oxen; and of the money-changers he poured out the coin and the tables
>overthrew."
>
>He drove out of the temple "both" the sheep and the oxen (1+1=2); but
>not the doves or the money changers. He poured out the coins and
>overturned the tables of money changers but did not strike them.
|
