I already posted that all the saints after the Flood ate meat and so
did Jesus! After the Flood the Lord gave permission to do that. The
scripture though, informed us that THE LAST DAYS will be as in the
days of Noah.
CAN IM****TANT BIBLE TRUTHS BE WITHHELD FROM THE DISCIPLES OF CHRIST,
THE APOSTLES, AND MOST OF THE NEW TESTAMENT BELIEVERS?...
Here is another issue with another attacker of Adventist doctrine
claiming that since the Apostles didn't tell us about the
Investigative Judgment particulars, then no one can afterward:
http://www.Seventh-dayAdventism.com/DesFord.htm
We now get to the meat of the problem of what was formerly shown us on
the home page taken from Dr. Ford's statements made on the Atoday
Forums (in our interpretation, it is the Atoday Cell Groups.)
AToday: QUESTION #21. In the open and frank discussion on the AToday
Forum, it has become apparent to many after reading your interview and
searching the scriptures that the New Testament does NOT sup****t the
traditional SDA view of the Investigative Judgment.
Our Comment: The New Testament doesn't reveal the particulars about
the actual time for the Judgment to start. What it does say is that
the Judgment will take place at the end of the world:
Heb. 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of
the world: but now once--in the end of the world--hath he appeared to
put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the
judgment:
This does not mean that the New Testament doesn't "sup****t" the
Adventist view of the Investigative Judgment truth as if it is not
true. The New Testament does not give the particulars about the
timing--except that the Apostles believed that the Judgment started in
their day. Notice above how Paul cl***** the death of Christ with the
end of the world. Paul, the Disciples and all the other Apostles
believed that their day was the last days and that Christ's coming was
imminent. The New Testament therefore does not define as much about
the Judgment to allow God's people to defend this position using it.
Atoday: However, some have taken the position that regardless of this
obvious lack of New Testament sup****t, the Investigative Judgment
doctrine can still be sup****ted from the Old Testament ALONE. They
state that this unique doctrine need not have any New Testament
sup****t for it to still be valid. They argue that this "special truth"
has recently been revealed (unsealed) in the last days to God's
church. So, they say, this would explain why the Apostles were never
informed of the 1844 date and why there is no clear reference to this
doctrine in the New Testament.
For the sake of argument, assuming that one could make a case for 1844
from the Old Testament, would this logic have any theological
validity? How im****tant is the New Testament in determining prophecy
and doctrine for us today?
Dr. Ford: IF THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT COULD BE SUP****TED FROM THE
OLD TESTAMENT ALONE, IT WOULD BE MIRACULOUS, BUT NOT SUFFICIENT! We
are not literal Jews but spiritual Israel, and the New Testament
always has the casting vote on doctrine. Hebrews 1:1 contrasts the
revelation through Jesus with the inferior previous revelations
through the prophets. Jude 3 talks of "the faith once for all
entrusted to the saints," which is a reference to the New Testament
gospel, which came from Christ and the apostles.
Our Comment: Sorry, but this is a blatant and deliberate fib. Jude 3,
telling Christians that they must earnestly contend for "the faith
once delivered unto the saints" does not refer to the new scriptures
which were written by the Apostles. Just by the frequent actions of
the Apostles who had to minister first to the Jews about Christ, shows
you that they did not present to those Jews any kind of New Testament
scripture to be the greater light in order to back up their
statements. The New Testament at that time was a lesser light. The
Apostles went into the synagogues and contended with the Jews using
their scriptures (the Law and the Prophets [The Old Testament]). If
even today you wanted to present Christ to a Jew, what scriptures
would you use?
2 Tim. 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures,
which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is
in Christ Jesus.
Which were the only scriptures that existed when the Apostles were
children? We are here being shown that the Gospel was in the Old
Testament, and so was Christ (Heb. 4:2). Doug Batchelor re****ted in
Net NY 99 that ten percent of everything Christ said was taken from
the Old Testament. Check it out for yourselves if you don't believe
him.
Dr. Ford continues: When Jesus repeatedly affirmed , "But I say unto
you," He was not contradicting the Old Testament, but transcending the
way His contem****aries interpreted it. The Bible admonishes us seven
times that, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word
be established." No solitary text in either Testament is sufficient to
make a valid doctrine, and the Old Testament without the New, is not
the Christian's guide. On the Mount of Transfiguration, Moses and
Elijah vanished and the apostles "saw no man but Jesus only." The word
is for Moses and Elijah the law and the prophets only make sense
interpreted through the Christ and the testimony He has delivered
through the apostles.
Our Comment: The statement made is contradictory. The Transfiguration
occurred in the New Testament, but nothing is mentioned about it in
the Old. Is the story about the Transfiguration therefore true?
Secondly, the precept that out of the mouths of two or three
witnesses, then shall a word stand had been instituted because men can
tell lies. God cannot lie. That principle does not hold for the
scriptures. Something in the scripture can be mentioned only once, and
it must stand.
Yet Christ did make some changes to the civil laws of the Jews as it
was understood in old time. He did this to prepare His children for
the Christian dispensation where they will not be led as a nation any
further, but will have to be under the domination of other
governments. They were told that they must not render the "eye for an
eye" precept any longer. They were no longer to be a nation with their
own methods of legal enforcement anymore. This does not mean that
Christ contradicted what was stated before. Even when Christ stated
that it had been said by them of old time to love your friends and to
hate your enemies, is there anyone who can find that in the Old
Testament scriptures? That particular precept was added over time
extrabiblically by the Jews.
The problem is that too many quote these changes that Christ has made
as first justification to institute changes of their own upon
everyone. THESE NEED TO FOLLOW THEIR OWN PRECEPTS AS THEY TOLD US TO
CONCENTRATE ON OUR OWN SPIRITUAL LIVES AND FORGET ABOUT WHAT EVERYONE
ELSE IS DOING!....
Dr. Ford: If 1844 cannot be sup****ted from the New Testament, then it
cannot be considered a valid Christian doctrine. It cannot, so it is
not!
Our Comment: Notice here that Dr. Ford does not care if you disagree
with him. What Dr. Ford is therefore saying, is that Christ wasted
His time to deliver His messages to Daniel. Remember keenly that
Daniel was "greatly beloved" of heaven. When Christ sent messages to
him, if Christ did not appear Himself, he would send His highest
messenger to speak with Daniel. The problem was thence that Christ
revealed the secrets of the prophecies containing the Investigative
Judgment to Daniel, and when Daniel asked what the meaning was, Daniel
was not beloved enough to be informed by the Lord the meaning. Daniel
inquired of the Lord:
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what
shall be the end of these things?
And the Lord answered:
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and
sealed till the time of the end.
....But yet we see that Christ stated that a prophecy will be sealed
till the end of the world.
Now we know that there are some people who hate that prophecy. Is
there some way they can prevent that egg from hatching so that the
information remains away from the people permanently?
We discover that the Apostles did not live at the end of the world,
but only when the world was two-thirds what it currently is today. All
that time the Apostles were teaching for most of their lives that
Christ was going to appear imminently, and that did not happen.
What then therefore happens to that prophecy that was given to Daniel
by the Lord? When and how will it unhatch? Can Dr. Ford and others in
the conspiracy actually have the power to convince us that a direct
prophecy of the Lord must die even before it was fulfilled out of
imagined respect for the New Testament?
No! The prophecy was just as much sealed away from the Apostles as it
was from Daniel. Christ still yet commissioned the Apostles to teach
and preach that His coming was imminent.
Dr. Ford is essentially telling us the prophecy must die. That was the
major problem the Protestants had with their papal persecutors: the
papists always claimed the prerogatives to be above scripture or to
silence or even to destroy it entirely or ****tions of it. The last
chapter of the Revelation was written in order to address just such
people. It tells us that anyone who takes away from the words of the
book of prophecy will be removed from the records of heaven and
participation from the Holy City. Woe unto anyone who challenges even
the purpose for why Christ took the time to reveal the prophecies to
His people--who come telling us that the Gospel demands that we ignore
or reject entirely what Christ has sent to us for a purpose.
Adventists didn't create the law nor the prophecies, nor the
scriptures which demonstrate the time prophecies: God did. The
complaints are being directed against the wrong personalities here.
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