On May 11, 9:14=A0pm, Robert Cohen <robtco...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On May 11, 8:47=A0pm, Robert Cohen <robtco...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 11, 8:34=A0pm, Robert Cohen <robtco...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > On May 11, 9:03=A0am, Robert Cohen <robtco...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 9, 9:13=A0pm, LMC Society <aegisi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > > it's often been said that jews are a rootless people. the
'wanderi=
ng
> > > > > jew' has been feared and admired, vilified and romanticized,
exile=
d
> > > > > and emulated.
> > > > > the historical image of the jew is that of a people going from
one=
> > > > > place to another for whatever reason--curiosity, moneymaking,
gett=
ing
> > > > > the boot, search for a new promised land. and, so jews have been
> > > > > accused of having no roots and no desire to settle down like
every=
one
> > > > > else and make a living; this is a rather funny accusation coming
f=
rom
> > > > > ****tuguese, spaniards, french, and british who did much more to
> > > > > conquer and wander about the world. but, i suppose one could say
> > > > > spanish, british, french, and ****tuguese explored and conquered
th=
e
> > > > > world for their mother country whereas jews always went for a
ride=
on
> > > > > the backs of other people. =A0before jews were freedom riders,
the=
y were
> > > > > free riders.
>
> > > > > anyway, one could argue that the notion of
jews-as-a-rootless-peop=
le
> > > > > is fundamentally wrong. =A0homelessness is not the same as
rootles=
sness.
> > > > > it could be argued that jews didn't embrace wandering as an
ideal =
but
> > > > > an unfortunate necessity. =A0rather, they wandered about because
t=
hey
> > > > > lost their home--the promised land of israel. =A0in this sense,
je=
ws
> > > > > always had home and roots in their heart. =A0they appeared to be
> > > > > rootless in foreign lands because jews, remembering israel as
thei=
r
> > > > > true home, could never feel at home among goyim.
> > > > > indeed, it could be argue that jews appeared to be rootless
precis=
ely
> > > > > because they--and their religion--was rooted. =A0even though
jews =
came
> > > > > up with an abstract one-and-only-god in heaven, their holy book
sa=
id
> > > > > god gave a specific parcel of land to the jews--that land jews
> > > > > conquered from canaanites and philistines. =A0because jews who'd
b=
een
> > > > > scattered around the world thought of returing home to their
holy
> > > > > land, they naturally appeared and acted as rootless people in
fore=
ign
> > > > > lands. it's kinda like odysseus in the famous story. he may have
> > > > > appeared rootless as he went from one land to the next and
bumped =
into
> > > > > all sorts of nasty adventure and such. but, he wasn't wandering
fo=
r
> > > > > the rootless fun of it. he was actually trying to go home. even
wh=
en
> > > > > calypso tried to keep him on her island, all odysseus could
think =
of
> > > > > was going back to penelope and sonny boy. =A0to calypso,
odyessus =
may
> > > > > seemed rootless as he couldn't give invest his love in their
> > > > > relation****p. but, this was because odysseus was actually
homesick=
and
> > > > > had penelope on his mind. =A0so, odysseus seemed rootless
precisel=
y
> > > > > because he was rooted. because he desired to go home, he felt
and
> > > > > seemed out of place in various parts of the world.
>
> > > > > if jews seemed rootless because their faith rooted them
spirituall=
y in
> > > > > the holy land, christians may appear rooted precisely because
thei=
r
> > > > > religion is rootless. =A0jesus was a funny kind of jew. he saw
him=
self
> > > > > as the son of god--directly and literally. also, he had little
use=
for
> > > > > many jewish traditions and ideas. =A0he wanted to spread god to
al=
l men
> > > > > all over the world--or, so the christians say. for jesus, there
wa=
s no
> > > > > single holy land for a single people. =A0all the people were
god's=
> > > > > children and all the land was equally holy. =A0so, there is no
spe=
cific
> > > > > home or holy ground for christians. it's the Idea that is holy.
=
=A0it's
> > > > > an idea that can go anywhere, like dandelion seeds. =A0so,
christi=
anity
> > > > > is rootless. but, its adherents can lead happily rooted lives
beca=
use
> > > > > they can be perfect christians exactly where they are. =A0 =A0a
je=
w in
> > > > > argentina may still think of the holy land of israel. secular or
> > > > > religious, israel is historically im****tant to the idea of
jewishn=
ess.
> > > > > but, the holy lands are not that im****tant to christians. =A0of
co=
urse,
> > > > > christians want that part of the world to be under western
control=
.. of
> > > > > course, many christians would like to travel to israel and do
some=
> > > > > sightseeing. but, one can be an happy and totally fulfilled
chrisi=
tan
> > > > > in spain, philippines, brazil, japan, china, or zimbabwe. =A0to
be=
sure,
> > > > > there is some stuff in the revelations about jesus coming back
dow=
n to
> > > > > the holy land and blah blah, but it's jews who are supposed to
go =
back
> > > > > to that territory, not christians. =A0a christian can feel
happily=
holy
> > > > > and totally rooted whereever he is. =A0today, a modern jew is
happ=
y in
> > > > > the US and many parts of europe, but there is still a sense
=A0of =
israel
> > > > > as their true home. the holyland is spiritually and historically
> > > > > jewish. it's the ONLY country in the world where jews make up
the
> > > > > majority. =A0it's the land that the bible talks about over and
ove=
r.
>
> > > > The essay seems sympathetic and interesting, while I must argue
with=
> > > > the thesis of the wandering Jews as unwilling to
> > > > permanently settle anywhere during the past two thousand years.
>
> > > > That is a misrepresentation of reality.
>
> > > > The "Golden Age of Poland" seems to have lasted a long time
perhaps
> > > > until the twentieth century or the 19th or whatever century.
>
> > > > As regarding Jews non-conforming to mainstream normative.
>
> > > > The Dreyfuss tragedy is a notorious refutation of this.
>
> > > > The French officer apparently was falsely accused of disloyalty
> > > > (spying for Germany):
>
> > > > The French military
> > > > is afterall a reflection of French society:
>
> > > > Colonel Alfred Dreyfus' reputation =A0was subsequently
rehabiltated =
by
> > > > way of the eloquent attorney Emile Zola, though the ugly affair
last=
ed
> > > > for years including a =A0Devil's Island sentence.
>
> > > > D had apparently been railroaded by a =A0good ole boy military
> > > > establishment in that most liberal, secular, Napoleonized society.
>
> > > > Theodore Herzl, the secularized Austrian, in the late 19th century
> > > > perceives-- particularly verified from Dreyfuss-- that Europe is
> > > > ultimately intolerant & hopeless.
>
> > > > Founder Herzl' =A0idealistic socialistic zionism is not based upon
> > > > theology.
>
> > > > Some Orthodox Jews reject modern Israel as non-fulfilling of G-d's
> > > > specific criteria.
>
> > > > I'm trying to refute the premise of Jews having a choice in where
to=
> > > > settle.
>
> > > > The Spanish and ****tugese explorers of the Americas were not
> > > > exclusively Catholic (i.e. Columbus' translator).
>
> > > > The conform to Christianity or die Spanish Inquisition was circa
149=
2.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Here is a less imprecise discussion of Herzl and L'affaire du
Dreyfus.=
>
> > >http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/922295.html-Hidequoted
text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > A Golden Age for the Jews of Poland lasts approx 600 years, which
> > ain't bad I suppose
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland_(966-1572)-Hid=
e quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> A succinct article, and affirms what I have vaguely thought.
>
> Am not sure that the courageous Zola is an attorney per se, which is
> irrelevant anyway.
>
> Dreyfus was rehabilitated when the initial mistake and ugly frame-up
> was eventually publicly exposed, and his military career continued
> into WW I.
>
> The rationale for Israel was not accepted by most/many Jews and non-
> Jews alike until soon after WW II.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
http://nebuchadnezzarwoollyd.blogspot.com/2006/05/dreyfus-affair.html
|
