Re: Atheists have blind faith in their ability

On 2008-06-14 01:30:52 +0100, Thom Madura <Tommadura@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> said:

> Andrew wrote:
>> On 2008-06-14 00:36:40 +0100, "Adonis" <aol@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> said:
>> 
>>> 
>>> "Andrew" <thecroft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
>>> news:2008061323460843658-thecroft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> On 2008-06-13 21:42:12 +0100, "Adonis" <aol@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> said:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Andrew" <thecroft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:2008061320515643658-thecroft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>> On 2008-06-13 03:26:36 +0100, EskWIRED@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 said:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In alt.religion.christian Andrew <thecroft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 1. God knew that Jesus would be killed.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 2. God could prevent Jesus from being killed.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> These are logically mutually incompatible statements.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> But what you studiously overlook is that God planned and approved
of jesus
>>>>>>> being killed.  Stopping it or not ain't got nothing to do with it;
He
>>>>>>> orchestrated the whole thing.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> God was NOT a passive player in the Crucifiction and the
Resurrection.
>>>>>>> To intimate otherwise is heresy.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> No - God was certainly not a passive player. His will was that his
son 
>>>>>> should run the same risks, endure the same kinds of suffering and
go 
>>>>>> through the same painful process of dying that (some) other humans
go 
>>>>>> through. In otrher words - that his son's experience should be 
>>>>>> genuinely human, with all the suffering that entails.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Did God 'plan' Jesus's crucifixion? I don't think it says that
anywhere 
>>>>>> in the Bible.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The prophecies in the OT certainly do give that impression.
>>>> 
>>>> Do they? They may express God's foreknowledge (actually, for God, I 
>>>> think the 'fore' bit is misleading) and may prepare people for an 
>>>> understanding of the events to come, but that does not imply
planning.
>>>> 
>>> You can call it misleading if you like. The fact is, the wording of
the 
>>> stories do very much imply planning and not a prediction..
>> 
>> I don't think they do, and I look forward to your textual analysis of 
>> appropraite passages.
>> 
> 
> The whole old testament is a legend at best - myth at most - and surely 
> greatly exaggerated over the millienia that is was not written down.

Millennia for parts of it. Most? I don't think so.

>  At the time the first jewish ta****h was written - during King David's 
> reign - it was already 3-4000 years after Moses supposedly lived. Today 
> - we have the ability to record things - and yet we cannot be sure of 
> where George Wa****ngton slept. After even 1000 years - these stories 
> were obviously turned into "whoppers". THey have no sup****t in the 
> historical record at all.
> 
> At the time the christian bible was compiled - there were no autograph 
> copies of the old testament - and no autograph copies of the source 
> material from David's time - much less from the real time.
> 
> WE also have no autograph copies of the New Testament - no autograph 
> copies of ANY of the source material for it - only a few COPIES of 
> apostolic letters from the 3rd century - which cannot be proven to be 
> real copies even.
> 
> Then =- you are arguing over whether the bible knows the mindset of an 
> imaginary god that was not on earth.
> 
> This is nonsense

It is if you assume that God is imaginary.