"default" <default@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:1210451386_1981@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Sat, 10 May 2008 10:03:37 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
> <PF@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>> Still chanting atheist mantras in Christian NGs? How droll of you!!
We
>>already conceded, that the god(s) of your definition do indeed not
exist.
>>However, if you are so keen on existing gods, then make me an offer for
my
>>genuine, existing gods, of which I have a whole display cabinet full.
Just
>>be aware, that none of them will lift one wooden finger for you.
>
> Damn, atheist mantras? Atheists don't have mantras that's
> strictly a theist concept.
>
Atheists don't have mantras? What do you call the chant: There ain't
no
god(s)? Without definition of the words used? And no there is indeed no
god
of Catholic description, for I too got the pictures of that old hairy man
looking over the clouds writing into a book everything I did wrong. What
you
are rebelling against are primitive and infantile understanding of
concepts
of immense im****tance. And yes, it takes a long time to get rid of them,
but
that should not deter you from seeking answers to why so many apparently
intelligent people find something worthwhile in religion, without changing
the language and imagery much.
It all hinges on definitions, and those you can often find in other
religions. That's why Aldous Huxley wrote the small book "Perennial
Philosophy" to show the common thread in often different words.
You have a lot of Catholic overburden to remove, but the short way to
the nuggets is to listen to the great religious reformers themselves and
try
figure out what they wanted to say. I.e. few Christians and even less
churches, actually share Christ's definition of His God. See below
Pastor Frank
"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
The word "God" is not a proper name but a title of a position of
whatever is your standard of virtue and ideal of perfection against
which you measure all behaviour. (Jesus in Matthew. 5:48)
I.e. In 2 Corinthians 4:4, Paul says that Satan is: "...the god (theos)
of this world", i.e. reality, to which Atheists reference. And again in a
Philippians 3:19, Paul says there are people: "...whose God (theos) is
their
belly", i.e. gratification, pleasure, to which Hedonists reference. Also,
Jesus speaks of mammon being a god or devil, representing the greed for
possessions, money and power, to which most people reference. (Mt:6:24:)
Jesus tells us in Jn:4:24 that His "GOD IS A SPIRIT", (i.e. akin to a
quality of attitude, like love and care [1Jn 4:8,16] which imbues a person
and animates the flesh), and "they that wor****p him must wor****p him in
spirit and in truth."
Jesus explains further in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am
the
way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If
ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth
YE
KNOW HIM AND HAVE SEEN HIM." Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the
Father, and it sufficeth us." Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long
time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME
HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father?
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The
words
that I speak unto you I speak not of myself, but the FATHER THAT DWELLETH
IN
ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS."
Jesus in Jn:10:30: I and my Father are one.
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom
of God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or,
lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that LOVETH not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the LOVE that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in LOVE dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye LOVE one
another; as I have LOVED you, that ye also LOVE one another.
Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my
disciples,
if ye have LOVE one to another.
Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye LOVE one
another,
as I have LOVED you. Greater LOVE hath no man than this, that a man lay
down
his life for his friends.
Acts:17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; as
certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also His offspring.
Proverbs 10:22 God is nearer than our own soul, closer than our most
secret thoughts.
Heb:1:8: But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and
ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
> Think on that a bit.
>
> The mantra is to invoke spiritual feelings in theists and Christians -
> you can CALL it a "litany," you can call it a "catechism," you can
> call it "the rosary," or "the mass," "stations of the cross," "the
> kneeling walk up the sacred steps," BUT those are mantras! Don't try
> to fool yourself, they only have different names. Sort of like
> "ambition" and "greed."
>
> You have to disobey Christ while still feeling that you are moral,
> blessed, in grace, etc.. Your religion tells you to, and you follow
> like a good little lamb.
>
> You, and your Christian cohorts, seem to have this "burned in"
> definition of atheist. I did too - after 18 years of Catholic school
> and a whacked out maternal parent and dad that should have had bigger
> balls. I used to cringe at the word, long after realizing the
> religions were wrong - that was my catholic programming, my
> indoctrination, my brainwa****ng, my inculcation . . . it isn't easy to
> throw off beliefs that a lot of "well meaning" people try to instill
> in you at an early age.
>
> Mantras were used by Christians along with fasting to "see God," from
> the third century on up - and that only recently got watered down to
> fish on Friday and no food or drink after midnight.
>
> Likely as not, the Hebrew people were, subjecting themselves knowingly
> or unknowingly to plant toxins, or ****k parasites, or shellfish
> toxins. That behavior, along with some outside intervention from the
> politicians, and human insecurity, would be more than enough to
> create a need for a God.
>
> Either all Gods are the "one god" or no god is god. Logic states that
> just because you lack the good fortune of being born into a "chosen"
> people you can't get to nirvana - what kind of "just and merciful"
> would make that part of the rules. You can't have it both ways -
> either your god is merciful and just; or is not>
>
> But, Pasture Frank, you're really just spouting off bull ****, in an
> effort to justify your own immoral life - just like almost every other
> "Christian" on the planet.
>
> I'm an atheist and more Christian than you or most other Christians -
> simply because I follow my moral code and it is "Christ like." It
> isn't just Christian lip service.
> --
>
>
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