In message
<87557f8a-dc1b-4084-8f11-d6691cf579ff@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
lsenders@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<lsenders@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Jul 25, 8:02 am, Doug <t...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> In message <1WJhk.6497$cn7.1...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> Fred A Stover <fredstov...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > "Doug" <t...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
<snip>
>>
>> Dispensationalism uses contorted, twisted rhetoric to evade the
>> clear identification of the "church of the firstborn" and
>> the "firstfruits of his creatures" with the 144,000 of Revelation
>> 7:1-8 & 14:1-5.
>>
> It is not we who run off into allegorical interpretation at
> the first sign of prophecy. Again you confuse inclusion
> with your exclusive and unsup****ted presupposition.
>>
>
>>
>> More distortion! So according to your claim above, when James
>> says "the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad" he includes
>> the adopted church.
>
> "Neither Jew nor Gentile, male or female." Inclusion is
> not equal to exclusion. The male is still a man and a
> female is still a woman (praise the Lord!). The mystery
> of the Church is that it would include both Jews and
> Gentiles BUT not to the exclusion of the distinctive
> nature of the elect nation, Israel.
The unbelieving Jews are the branches of the olive tree that were
broken off, in Paul's discussion in Romans 11. Dispensationalists
negate and thwart this doctrine by calling unbelieving Jews "the
elect nation of Israel," but in scripture, the term "elect" refers
to those who have the Spirit of God, and who believe the gospel.
Isaiah wrote,
Isaiah 42:1
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul
delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth
judgment to the Gentiles.
This is applied to Christ in Matthew 12:18. Paul applied the
term "elect" to the Church, which he contrasts with unbelieving
Jews.
Romans 11:7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but
the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Loren's application of terms like "elect nation of Irael" to
unbelieving Jews is deceptive.
> If you claim the
> sureness of God's promises, then you must also allow
> that their original clients will inherit what was distinctly
> promised to them
Another confused, deceptive claim from Loren, as God's promises are
fulfilled through Christ. A.W. Pink explained:
=============<begin quote>==============
Let the Christian ever be on his guard against contemplating any
promise of God apart from Christ. Whether the thing promised, the
blessing desired, be tem****al or spiritual, we cannot legitimately
or truly enjoy it except in and by Christ. Therefore did the
Apostle remind the Galatians, "Now to Abraham and his seed were the
promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of
one, And to thy seed, which is Christ" (3:16)--in quoting Genesis
12:3, Paul was not proving, but affirming, that God's promises to
Abraham respected not all his natural posterity, but only those of
his spiritual children--those united to Christ. All the promises of
God to believers are made to Christ, the Surety of the everlasting
covenant, and are conveyed from Him to us--both the promises
themselves and the things promised. "This is the [all-inclusive]
promise that He hath promised us, even eternal life" (1 John 2:25),
and, as 5:11 tells us, "this life is in His Son"--so grace, and all
other benefits. "If I read any of the promises I found that all and
every one contained Christ in their bosom, He Himself being the one
great Promise of the Bible. To Him they were all first given; from
Him they derive all their efficacy, sweetness, value, and
im****tance; by Him they are brought home to the heart; and in Him
they are all yea, and amen" (R. Hawker, 1810).
Since all the promises of God are made in Christ, it clearly follows
that none of them are available to any who are out of Christ, for
to be out of Him is to be out of the favour of God. God cannot look
on such a person but as an object of His wrath, as fuel for His
vengeance: there is no hope for any man until he be in Christ. But
it may be asked, Does not God bestow any good things on them who
are out of Christ, sending His rain upon the unjust, and filling
the bellies of the wicked with good things (Ps. 17:14)? Yes, He
does indeed. Then are not those tem****al mercies blessings?
Certainly not: far from it. As He says in Malachi 2:2, "I will
curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye
do not lay it to heart" (cf. Deut. 28:15-20). Unto the wicked, the
tem****al mercies of God are like food given to bullocks--it does
but "prepare them for the day of slaughter" (Jer. 12:3, and cf.
Jam. 5:5).
Having presented above a brief outline on the subject of the Divine
promises, let us now examine a striking yet little-noticed
expression, namely "the children of the promise" (Rom. 9:8). In the
context the Apostle discusses God's casting of the Jews and calling
of the Gentiles, which was a particularly sore point with the
former. After describing the unique privileges enjoyed by Israel as
a nation (verses 4 and 5), he points out the difference there is
between them and the antitypical "Israel of God" (verses 6-9),
which he illustrates by the cases of Isaac and Jacob. Though the
Jews had rejected the Gospel and had been cast off by God, it must
not be supposed that His word had failed of accomplishment (verse
6), for not only had the prophecies concerning the Messiah been
fulfilled, but the promise respecting Abraham's seed was being made
good. But it was most im****tant to apprehend aright what or whom
that "seed" comprised. "For they are not all Israel [spiritually
speaking], who are of Israel [naturally]: neither, because they are
the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, in Isaac shall thy
seed be called" (verses 6 and 7).
The Jews erroneously imagined (as modern Dispensationalists do) that
the promises made to Abraham concerning his seed respected all of
his descendants. Their boast was "we be Abraham's seed" (John
8:33), to which Christ replied, "If ye were Abraham's children ye
would do the works of Abraham" (verse 39 and see Romans 4:12).
God's rejection of Ishmael and Esau was decisive proof that the
promises were not made to the natural descendants as such. The
selection of Isaac and Jacob showed that the promise was restricted
to an elect line. "The children of the flesh, these are not the
children of God; but the children of the promise are counted
[regarded] as the seed. For this is the word of promise. At this
time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son (Rom. 9:8,9).
The "children of God" and the "children of promise" are one and the
same, whether they be Jews or Gentiles. As Isaac was born
supernaturally, so are all of God's elect (John 1:13). As Isaac, on
that account, was heir of the promised blessing, so are Christians
(Gal. 4:29; 3:29). "Children of the promise" are identical
with "the heirs of promise" (Heb. 6:17, and cf. Rom. 8:17).
God's promises are made to the spiritual children of Abraham (Rom.
4:16; Gal 3:7), and none of them can possibly fail of
accomplishment. "For all the promises of God in Him [namely Christ]
are yea, and in Him amen" (2 Cor. 1:20). They are deposited in
Christ, and in Him they find their affirmation and certification,
for He is the sum and substance of them. Inexpressibly blessed is
that declaration to the humble-minded child of God--yet a mystery
hid from those who are wise in their own conceits. "He that spared
not His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not
with Him also freely give us all things?" (Rom. 8:32). The promises
of God are numerous: relating to this life and also that which is
to come. They concern our tem****al wellbeing, as well as our
spiritual, covering the needs of the body as well as those of the
soul. Whatever be their character, not one of them can be made good
unto us except in and through and by Him who lived and died for us.
The promises which God has given to His people are absolutely sure
and trustworthy, for they were made to them in Christ: they are
infallibly certain for fulfillment, for they are accomplished
through and by Him.
=============<end quote>==============
> It was God, not Abram who walked
> through the sacrifice and therefore it is God, not Abram
> nor those of his loins, Who is responsible for keeping
> His agreement. "It is ALL from Him, through Him and
> to Him."
<snip>
--
Doug
http://vinyl2.sentex.ca/~tcc/OP/
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