On Tue, 13 May 2008 21:47:29 +1000, "Andrew W"
<removethis_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
: "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
: news:pejh245tj30i7plb2n7rimddtkm239n5m0@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Mon, 12 May 2008 18:10:25 +1000, "Andrew W"
: > <removethis_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
: >
: > : "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
: > : news:v8fe24h7t4cnlquok1l2q49kpj9h2c6q4n@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> :
: > : I'm sure you also plant deadly trees in your backyard and then let
your
: > : children play there on their own after giving them only one terse
: > warning.
: > :
: > : Sin / bad deeds do not modify a person's genetics after only one
five
: > : minute act. It takes time for a person's nature to change on that
level.
: > : The Genesis writings are completely implausible on that point alone.
: >
: > How is it you know this (that God is too impotent for such a
: > thing to be possible)?
:
: A Creator does not do unnatural things,
Now you're changing your story. First you say such deeds do not
modify a person's genetics after only a five minute act. After
the obvious flaw of that thinking is pointed out, you instantly
change your story to make up something else. Now you change it to
"a creator does not do unnatural things". This is all you're
about: you'll keep changing your story to act like God's Word,
which has survived 3,500+ years is wrong, and the woman of the
1960's who told you she spoke to Jesus Christ personally is right
(and whatever other ideas you've allowed yourself to fall victim
to believing).
The problem is you're just looking for reasons to reject God and
make up your own version of a god that you're willing to wor****p,
one where you get to be as wicked as you want. I quote:
"This is not a model world, its an experimental test ground. One
of many. The only time your mistakes are counted against you is
once you are living in a model world.."
So there you have it. You are just looking for free reign to sin
all you want, since nothing is counted against you.
You know all you need to know, but it's clear you have no
interested in God, only against following creative reasons why
you can sin all you want against your own version of a god. I
only hope you stop making up excuses to justify sinning against
God and breaking His Commandments before it's too late. :-( Take
care.
: especially to bring pain and death
: to his creations.
: What would it achieve? What did it achieve? More pain, rebellion and
death.
: Why do you wor****p such a brutal and unnatural version of God?
:
: > :
: > : That guy is not God and has no responsibility or desire for my
welfare.
: >
: > You didn't answer the question. Would you call _that guy_ stupid
: > when you're the one that ignored him, disobeyed him, and ate the
: > fruit anyway?
:
: It would depend on the cir***stances. If I saw people getting sick after
: eating the fruit then I would definitely not call him stupid.
: But if he was the one who planted the poisonous tree there to endanger
: people's lives then I would have reason to call him a lot of things.
:
: >
: > : And the OT god said nothing about any sickness / sin being passed on
to
: > any
: > : children causing untold suffering and death for thousands of years
to
: > come.
: > : If he had mentioned that then A&E would have given much more thought
: > toward
: > : their actions. He only said that THEY would suffer and die. Not
anyone
: > else.
: > : The story is not realistic in the least.
: > :
: > : You don't seem to realise that these are just simplistic moral tales
for
: > : children
: > : and simple farm folk. It didn't really happen.
: >
: > How do you know this?
:
: Study and research. Ask a scholar.
: It is now known for absolute certain in the higher theological circles.
The
: Catholic church is the engineer of much of your cherished beliefs. Of
course
: there is a core of truth in the Christian religion regarding creation
and
: love but much of it is edited, distorted and
misinterpreted/misunderstood,
: or just moral stories for the people. Remember that they didn't have
: cinemas, radio or book stores selling story novels back then. People
: gathered around and told stories.
:
: > :
: > : The judge would definitely be callous if he sentenced someone to
death
: > just
: > : for picking a fruit from a tree.
: >
: > No, it was a spiritual death (which happened immediately) where
: > now the body is corrupted and will only live so long, which was
: > not how it would have been if Adam didn't eat from that tree.
:
: There is no scriptural evidence for a spiritual death. This is a guess
by
: some theologians that has gained popularity.
: The bible god said that they will die. He didn't say they would die
: spiritually. The default meaning for 'die' is physical for a physical
being
: unless otherwise stated.
: Also a spirit cannot die because it is immortal. How can a spirit be
more
: fragile than a physical organism? There is practically nothing in the
bible
: about what a spirit is and what can happen to it. It is pure speculation
on
: the part of theologians. Most theologians know virtually nothing about
: metaphysics because they never study it.
:
: >
: > And you are sentenced to pay the punishment for a lifetime of
: > sinning against God, for breaking His Law your entire life. And
: > you refuse to allow Christ's amazing sacrifice to apply to you,
: > because you refuse to repent and you refuse to trust in what
: > Christ did on the cross to save you. If you allow yourself to be
: > fooled, you will die in your sins, and will face Christ on the
: > day of judgment. :-(
:
: This is only true for the Christian version of God.
: The true Creator of this universe is not judgemental, hard hearted or
: legalistic, but unconditionally loving and eternally patient for us to
: evolve beyond our egos over time.
: Do you believe that God loves you totally and eternally regardless of
what
: you do? Do you think that God could ever carry out the unloving act of
: grievously hurting you?
:
: >
: > : But justice has not been done because an innocent person paying for
the
: > : crime of a guilty person is not justice and never can be.
: >
: > It can be if God says it is.
:
: Our Creator didn't. You're just following what a book says.
:
: > It's _because_ Christ was sinless,
: > innocent, that it counted as justice, a free gift that Christ
: > offered out of love.
:
: Substitutionary penitence is not justice, because the guilty have no
: motivation to stop doing what they're doing.
: The idea of substitutionary penitence started when people used to put
their
: sins onto a goat and send it out into the desert. That is silly.
: That's where we get the phrase scapegoat from. People back then were
very
: dumb and non self responsible.
:
: >
: > And you are not innocent. None of us are.
:
: No. We are evolving humans. You cannot grow and evolve without making
: mistakes. We learn most from our mistakes and this world is the perfect
test
: ground for doing so. This is not a model world, its an experimental test
: ground. One of many. The only time your mistakes are counted against you
is
: once you are living in a model world. There is no such thing because
: spiritual evolution is an ongoing process. If it were to finish then
there
: would be nothing left to do.
:
: > We all sin against God,
: > breaking His Law. It's that simple. If you think you do not sin
: > against God, you're believing a lie from satan which will lead
: > you straight to hell. :-(
:
: Who told you all that?
: Do you seriously believe all that?
:
: Firstly there is no hell as a place of punishment. There are hellish
astral
: realms but they were created simply from people's/spirit's collective
fears
: over time.
:
: But what would be the purpose of an eternal hell? As a place of reform
it
: would be completely useless because you never get out.
: Do you ever think these things through? An eternal hell is only useful
as
: cold vengeance.
: Do you really want to continue believing in such a callous and vicious
: version of God?
:
: >
: > : And the proof is that millions of people keep committing crimes
every
: > day
: > : despite your saviour dying on the cross.
: >
: > That's proof of nothing except the nature of man to be wicked and
: > reject God,
:
: That's one possibility. The other is that this is a place where God
allows
: us to go at it to our hearts content till we exhaust our egos and
eventually
: return to the light. That would be a far more natural approach and would
: probably get better over all results, not to mention zero casualties.
:
: > just like you're doing.
:
: What am I doing? Am I committing a crime by trying to help you open
your
: mind?
:
: > A condition that we need to
: > be saved from. We have free will, and you're free to reject God
: > because you refuse to submit yourself to His righteousness.
:
: You mean self-righteousness. Righteousness that leads to separation,
: suffering and deaths is self-righteousness which comes from the negative
: ego.
: And I'm only rejecting the Christian ~version~ of God.
:
: > And
: > you're free to accept the consequences of paying the penalty for
: > breaking God's Law your entire life.
: > :
: > : And what if our Creator is not the hard judgemental prosecutor your
: > religion
: > : keeps claiming he is?
: >
: > Every religion that follows God's Word know that God is holy and
: > righteous.
:
: Only one religion follows your god's words. There is no evidence that
your
: religion alone knows the mind of our Creator.
: Your religion used to think that the earth was flat and the sun and
stars
: revolved around it. That's only one of many false things they believed.
: They've gotten far more things wrong than science.
:
: >
: > And what if He is, exactly like His Word says?
:
: Scholars have already determined with certainty that what you proudly
call
: 'His Word' is a patchwork of religious traditions and beliefs.
:
: >
: > You better hope the woman in the 1960's who told you she spoke
: > with Jesus Christ is right in the lies she told you, because
: > you're putting your trust in something as ridiculous as you're
: > claiming God's Word is.
:
: You just don't understand spirituality and metaphysics.
: The information I get is backed up by countless other sources, not just
one
: woman as you keep saying.
: I have far more sources than your Bible ever had. One of my sources
right
: now and probably the best is the Bashar tapes.
:
: >
: > :
: > : >
: > : > God would be corrupt if he just let all liars, idolaters,
: > : > fornicators, adulterers, murderers (in thought, not just in deed)
: > : > into heaven.
: > :
: > : Heaven is not a place, its a state of mind that everyone will
eventually
: > : evolve to experience.
: > : It may take many lifetimes for some but no being can stay in the
dark
: > : forever.
: >
: > How do you _know_ this?
:
: Study and research.
:
: >
: > :
: > : > Unfortunately, the real problem is many people want
: > : > to be as wicked as they want, reject God as much as they want,
: > : > and still get to heaven. To do this, you continue to judge Him in
: > : > spite of the clear fact the real problem is they have and
: > : > continue to break His Law, and refuse to repent and accept
: > : > Christ's amazing sacrifice on the cross.
: > :
: > : You need to get your head out of that outdated bible and do some
real
: > study
: > : on morality and metaphysics.
: > : You are still living in the middle ages.
: >
: > No, this is still God's creation, and His Word has survived
: > intact for over 3,500 years, unlike mythological stories.
: >
: > You think anything God told them thousands of years ago has
: > somehow expired just because we live in such an 'advanced'
: > society.
:
: Jewish/Judeo religious traditions and beliefs have no place in our
country
: and time.
:
: >
: > 1 Peter 1:25 KJVR But the word of the Lord endureth forever. And
: > this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
:
: So you believe what you believe just because a verse in a book says so?
: Are you going to let a book think for you forever? When are you going to
: start thinking for yourself?
:
: >
: > The scripture cannot be broken:
: > John 10:34-35 KJVR Jesus answered them, Is it not written in
: > your law, I said, Ye are gods 35 If he called them gods, unto
: > whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken;
:
: Who do you believe wrote the above verse? I bet you think God dictated
it
: word for word.
:
: Guess what, the scriptures are broken. It was hashed together and edited
by
: the Catholic church.
:
: > :
: > : And it did no good as we can see.
: >
: > You don't seem to understand what Christ did for us when He died
: > on the cross: it's a gift that is only given to those who truly
: > repent, turning away from their sins,
: >
: > Matthew 4:17 KJVR From that time Jesus began to preach, and to
: > say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
: >
: > and trust on what Christ did alone to be saved from the
: > punishment of their sins.
: >
: > John 3:14-21 KJVR And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the
: > wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That
: > whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal
: > life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
: > begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
: > but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the
: > world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might
: > be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he
: > that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not
: > believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And
: > this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and
: > men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were
: > evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light,
: > neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
: > 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds
: > may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
: >
: > It in no way changes a thing with most of the people who will
: > still rationalize it all away so that they can continue to be as
: > wicked as they want.
: >
: > Those who repented and trusted in Christ know firsthand how their
: > lives were transformed from the inside out.
: >
: > :
: > : > You have only to repent (be
: > : > sorry for your sins, and turn away from your sins) and then
: > : > accept Christ as your Lord and savior, and you'll be saved.
: > :
: > : This world is for learning and while we're learning we will make
many
: > : mistakes.
: >
: > And you _know_ this how?
: >
: > : Your religion is full of legalism and fear. There is no evidence
that
: > our
: > : Creator is impatient and judgemental.
: >
: > No, the evidence is there. You just refuse to look at it so that
: > you don't have to submit yourself to His righteousness, and
: > continue to live in wickedness and sin with comfort.
:
: No evidence. Its only in your book. Christianity is a book religion.
:
: >
: > :
: > : >
: > : > Have you repented for your sins?
: > :
: > : While one is evolving, one's 'sins' are not counted against them.
: >
: > How is it you know that you can sin against God, breaking His
: > Commandments all you want your entire life and it doesn't matter
: > at all?
: >
: > That's a lie from satan that leads straight to hell.
:
: The Creator/universe loves us unconditionally. That means he/it
patiently
: waits for us to return to the light when we are ready.
: No one can stay lost forever. You need to lighten up. You need to
broaden
: your study instead of just reading one book. You are currently in a very
: small dark world of legalism, fear and guilt.
:
: > :
: > : The Christ being was a way shower, not a saviour. We all have part
of
: > God
: > : within us so we don't need saving.
: > : But its only from the Christian god himself that one would need
saving
: > : anyway because he's so obsessed with perfection and he can't control
his
: > : emotions. Sort of like a really legalistic human.
: > :
: > : It ok to mock a story book character. He won't come after you. Never
: > has.
: > : Don't be so scared of him/it.
: >
: > Old Testament:
: > Proverbs 1:7 KJVR The fear of the LORD is the beginning of
: > knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
:
: Clinging to a verse again I see.
:
: >
: > New Testament
: > Jesus said:
: > Matthew 10:28 KJVR And fear not them which kill the body, but
: > are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able
: > to destroy both soul and body in hell.
: >
: > Luke 12:4-5 KJVR And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of
: > them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they
: > can do. 5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him,
: > which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I
: > say unto you, Fear him.
: >
: > I hope you one day come to the right decision, and turn away from
: > the teachings that it's perfectly fine to spend your life sinning
: > against God and it doesn't matter. Please repent and trust on
: > what Christ did for you on the cross to save you the wages of
: > your lifetime of sins.
:
: You are the one who needs to turn away from your dark book religion.
: I hope you some day stop letting a book do your thinking for you and
snap
: out of your brainwa****ng.
|
