On Mon, 12 May 2008 18:10:25 +1000, "Andrew W"
<removethis_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
: "Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
: news:v8fe24h7t4cnlquok1l2q49kpj9h2c6q4n@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Sun, 11 May 2008 12:42:43 +1000, "Andrew W"
: > <removethis_ajwerner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
: >
: > : The Christian version of God is a really stupid version.
: > : One minute he threatens to kill Adam & Eve just for picking a fruit
from
: > a
: > : tree,
: >
: > Not true. He warns them that they will die if they eat from the
: > tree before they ever do so (spiritual death which leads to
: > physical death). What do they do? They disobey Him and eat from
: > it anyway. Their spiritually dead condition p***** on to their
: > offspring along with their sin nature.
:
: I'm sure you also plant deadly trees in your backyard and then let your
: children play there on their own after giving them only one terse
warning.
:
: Sin / bad deeds do not modify a person's genetics after only one five
: minute act. It takes time for a person's nature to change on that level.
: The Genesis writings are completely implausible on that point alone.
How is it you know this (that God is too impotent for such a
thing to be possible)?
:
: >
: > If a guy walked up to you and said "don't eat the fruit from that
: > tree - you'll get sick", what are you going to do? Eat from it
: > and then call _that guy_ stupid? Call _that guy_ stupid because
: > that sickness passed onto his children?
:
: That guy is not God and has no responsibility or desire for my welfare.
You didn't answer the question. Would you call _that guy_ stupid
when you're the one that ignored him, disobeyed him, and ate the
fruit anyway?
: And the OT god said nothing about any sickness / sin being passed on to
any
: children causing untold suffering and death for thousands of years to
come.
: If he had mentioned that then A&E would have given much more thought
toward
: their actions. He only said that THEY would suffer and die. Not anyone
else.
: The story is not realistic in the least.
:
: You don't seem to realise that these are just simplistic moral tales for
: children
: and simple farm folk. It didn't really happen.
How do you know this?
:
: >
: > : but then later he sends his only son to die on a cross to save
: > : everyone (from his own callous wrath).
: >
: > He is a holy, righteous God. He would be a corrupt judge to just
: > let those who break His Law off the hook.
:
: But he did let everyone off the hook. He just had his son bloodied and
: killed and said presto, you are forgiven.
: No one does strange things like that except in old middle eastern
: mythologies.
:
: >
: > Do you expect to show up in court, and when the judge shows you
: > how guilty you are for the crimes you've committed your whole
: > life, say "Judge, your wrath is callous and stupid. I demand you
: > prove how good you are by letting me go right now in spite of the
: > fact I'm a self-fish, arrogant person who's clearly broken the
: > law, mocked your attempts to have my punishment paid for me so
: > that you could let me go"? No, the judge will response "You are
: > right about one thing: I am a good person, and _because_ I am a
: > good person I'm going to see that justice is done. For your
: > entire life I gave you a way to see that justice was done - by
: > repenting from breaking the law before you ever got in my
: > courtroom, so that your crimes could be forgiven, and what did
: > you do? Run around telling everyone how "callous and stupid" I
: > am, and these laws of mine are, for your entire life. And now
: > here you are, and justice will be done, since you refused justice
: > to be done when I tried to get your fine paid for you and you
: > flat out refused."
:
: The judge would definitely be callous if he sentenced someone to death
just
: for picking a fruit from a tree.
No, it was a spiritual death (which happened immediately) where
now the body is corrupted and will only live so long, which was
not how it would have been if Adam didn't eat from that tree.
And you are sentenced to pay the punishment for a lifetime of
sinning against God, for breaking His Law your entire life. And
you refuse to allow Christ's amazing sacrifice to apply to you,
because you refuse to repent and you refuse to trust in what
Christ did on the cross to save you. If you allow yourself to be
fooled, you will die in your sins, and will face Christ on the
day of judgment. :-(
: But justice has not been done because an innocent person paying for the
: crime of a guilty person is not justice and never can be.
It can be if God says it is. It's _because_ Christ was sinless,
innocent, that it counted as justice, a free gift that Christ
offered out of love.
And you are not innocent. None of us are. We all sin against God,
breaking His Law. It's that simple. If you think you do not sin
against God, you're believing a lie from satan which will lead
you straight to hell. :-(
: And the proof is that millions of people keep committing crimes every
day
: despite your saviour dying on the cross.
That's proof of nothing except the nature of man to be wicked and
reject God, just like you're doing. A condition that we need to
be saved from. We have free will, and you're free to reject God
because you refuse to submit yourself to His righteousness. And
you're free to accept the consequences of paying the penalty for
breaking God's Law your entire life.
: The procedure didn't work, which
: shows that your religion has things all wrong about God and what Jesus
came
: to do.
:
: >
: > : It seems that with the Christian God, love is not always the most
: > powerful
: > : force in the universe.
: >
: > God loves us and doesn't want to bring us to justice. But being a
: > holy, righteous God and Judge, He has no choice if _you refuse_
: > to allow the punishment for your sins to be taken for you by
: > Jesus Christ and refuse to repent and accept Jesus as your Lord
: > and savior.
:
: And what if our Creator is not the hard judgemental prosecutor your
religion
: keeps claiming he is?
Every religion that follows God's Word know that God is holy and
righteous.
And what if He is, exactly like His Word says?
You better hope the woman in the 1960's who told you she spoke
with Jesus Christ is right in the lies she told you, because
you're putting your trust in something as ridiculous as you're
claiming God's Word is.
:
: >
: > God would be corrupt if he just let all liars, idolaters,
: > fornicators, adulterers, murderers (in thought, not just in deed)
: > into heaven.
:
: Heaven is not a place, its a state of mind that everyone will eventually
: evolve to experience.
: It may take many lifetimes for some but no being can stay in the dark
: forever.
How do you _know_ this?
:
: > Unfortunately, the real problem is many people want
: > to be as wicked as they want, reject God as much as they want,
: > and still get to heaven. To do this, you continue to judge Him in
: > spite of the clear fact the real problem is they have and
: > continue to break His Law, and refuse to repent and accept
: > Christ's amazing sacrifice on the cross.
:
: You need to get your head out of that outdated bible and do some real
study
: on morality and metaphysics.
: You are still living in the middle ages.
No, this is still God's creation, and His Word has survived
intact for over 3,500 years, unlike mythological stories.
You think anything God told them thousands of years ago has
somehow expired just because we live in such an 'advanced'
society.
1 Peter 1:25 KJVR But the word of the Lord endureth forever. And
this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
The scripture cannot be broken:
John 10:34-35 KJVR Jesus answered them, Is it not written in
your law, I said, Ye are gods 35 If he called them gods, unto
whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken;
:
: >
: > You want to talk about the most powerful force in the universe:
: > While we were yet sinners, mocking and rejecting God and breaking
: > His Law, Christ died for us anyway.
:
: And it did no good as we can see.
You don't seem to understand what Christ did for us when He died
on the cross: it's a gift that is only given to those who truly
repent, turning away from their sins,
Matthew 4:17 KJVR From that time Jesus began to preach, and to
say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
and trust on what Christ did alone to be saved from the
punishment of their sins.
John 3:14-21 KJVR And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the
wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That
whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal
life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the
world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might
be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he
that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not
believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And
this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and
men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were
evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light,
neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds
may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
It in no way changes a thing with most of the people who will
still rationalize it all away so that they can continue to be as
wicked as they want.
Those who repented and trusted in Christ know firsthand how their
lives were transformed from the inside out.
:
: > You have only to repent (be
: > sorry for your sins, and turn away from your sins) and then
: > accept Christ as your Lord and savior, and you'll be saved.
:
: This world is for learning and while we're learning we will make many
: mistakes.
And you _know_ this how?
: Your religion is full of legalism and fear. There is no evidence that
our
: Creator is impatient and judgemental.
No, the evidence is there. You just refuse to look at it so that
you don't have to submit yourself to His righteousness, and
continue to live in wickedness and sin with comfort.
:
: >
: > Have you repented for your sins?
:
: While one is evolving, one's 'sins' are not counted against them.
How is it you know that you can sin against God, breaking His
Commandments all you want your entire life and it doesn't matter
at all?
That's a lie from satan that leads straight to hell.
: But obviously things happen every day that one regrets, so yes of
course. We
: grow by reflecting on our daily deeds, but we have to move on and not
get
: all fearful of punishment from a religion's wrathful god person.
:
: >
: > Have you accepted Christ as your Lord and savior?
:
: The Christ being was a way shower, not a saviour. We all have part of
God
: within us so we don't need saving.
: But its only from the Christian god himself that one would need saving
: anyway because he's so obsessed with perfection and he can't control his
: emotions. Sort of like a really legalistic human.
:
: >
: > If not, why refuse to accept His forgiveness and continue to
: > judge and mock Him? Do you think judging Him and mocking Him will
: > get him to look past your sins on your day of judgment?
:
: It ok to mock a story book character. He won't come after you. Never
has.
: Don't be so scared of him/it.
Old Testament:
Proverbs 1:7 KJVR The fear of the LORD is the beginning of
knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
New Testament
Jesus said:
Matthew 10:28 KJVR And fear not them which kill the body, but
are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able
to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Luke 12:4-5 KJVR And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of
them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they
can do. 5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him,
which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I
say unto you, Fear him.
I hope you one day come to the right decision, and turn away from
the teachings that it's perfectly fine to spend your life sinning
against God and it doesn't matter. Please repent and trust on
what Christ did for you on the cross to save you the wages of
your lifetime of sins.
|
